It has a 36Wh battery, so it could easily charge the phone while you use it in laptop mode.
If that laptop was tablet-convertible, it would very solidly take care of the 3 computing areas that have emerged in the last few years (netbooks, smartphones, and tablets) in one (sort of) device.
If they can keep this package at <$1000 off contract (~$300 on contract), I can imagine a lot of people will want it.
Intel has a play here too. If they implement WiDi into Atom efficiently, they could realize nvidia's vision without much effort.
I agree. This form factor is the start of something big.
Wireless pairing would be nice, but I really want to charge up my phone if it's docked. To achieve a more complete experience, maybe the phone could be docked into the palmrest and become the trackpad? The entire phone could "click" down when pushed. Then you could use both the phone and the larger screen at the same time.
The possibilities are endless.
And in ten years, we'll still call them "phones"...
...or having the phone dock spring loaded (seamlessly so it wouldn't stick out of the screen) on the side or top of the screen and it would make the 'tablet-convertible' entirely possible. Just need a 10" or larger touchscreen to dock it to. You could hold it any way you wanted and the phone's accelerometer would do the rest. The keyboard could then snap on for use when you need it.
I had thought of both the ideas that ImSpartacus and anactoraaron mentioned here, a few months ago. I sent these ideas to HTC, but they never replied..haha!
I watched the video and press release about this thing on Engadget the other day. After watching the demo, I suddenly had an epiphany when I realized that what I had just seen was just the beginning of things to come. I think within 5 years, the processing power on these phones will be as good as what we currently experience on high-end desktops. As the technology continues to mature, the gap between SmartPhone and desktop will narrow. Just like every hotel now as an iPod dock integrated into the bedside radio, phone docks of sorts will become ubiquitus in society. Combined with 42+ Mbps wireless speeds and advancements in "cloud" computing, my home and work offices will always be with me wherever I go, and no matter where I am, I will to do "real" tasks with the "super computer" in my pocket like editing a 10GB movie in Adobe Premier or Final Cut Pro, thanks to the dock setup in my hotel room or elsewhere.
If the likes of Intel/AMD/Microsoft, etc. are not aware of where this is all going and still think that the future is on the big desktop at home or at the office, then I think the writing is on the wall for those companies.
Finally, what Motorola just displayed here is something that WP7 should have been capable of doing at launch. After all, MS has a lot to lose here. Instead, WP7 did not come out swinging and came out unfinished. Copy and past, anyone? Now all one can hear from the WP7 camp during CES is the sound of crickets as their mobile OS sinks to a very distant third or fourth in mindshare.
I was initially blown away, but then I took a step back and tried to imagine its use in real life.... If I leave my laptop behind and take the dock and smartphone instead.
The things I would miss:
- Video chatting on my laptop (v.imp when I'm away) - Catching up on work (MS Office intensive)
So yeah I can do without the latter (use a Remote App) but won't be able to Video chat while getting stuff done on my laptop... (due to the unfortunate placement of the phone...not even a software hack will fix it)
Put an additional camera on the dock's screen You can already link to and use a Widnows PC with software already written for this thing. Even if the refresh rate sucks now as mobile data speeds improve so will that.
I think we may be looking at the future of mobile computing, and combined with MS's announcement of an ARM powered Windows these may also be the first steps of ARM supplanting x86 as the architechture of choice for all computing.
How's this for a mind-bender: what if you could have both x86 and ARM?
Both AMD and Intel are already putting x86 cores on the same chip as graphics cards. Why not put an ARM core or two (or four) on there too? Then, with a properly written OS, you would be able to run those legaxy x86 programs and all your new iPhone/Android apps on the same machine, without emulation. Use the smaller ARM cores most of the time, and use power gating to only boot up the extra ARM cores/x86 cores when you need them.
Guys your forgetting about Documents to Go! I have it on my Incredible and can write Word, Excel, and Powerpoints off my phone. Now we just need a way to access our Windows home servers with Android phones so we can create and save our files easily while we are away from home.
This is a sweet phone but unfortunatly it's only on AT&T's network for now. Hope they have one with a Tablet style dock for Verizon later on when Android 3.0 is done. :)
Most of Smartphones and Tablets today are guided towards comsumption of data/multimedia. This shifts comsumption for creation a bit, even if little. First, the most impressive thing its the fact that we could use a Cell phone to connect to the Internet and use it as a Netbook often times, using a ''qwerty'' keyboard that is much more usefull than typing on a screen; Second, if we have to use a full fledged Desktop acessing it via TSR, VNC, etc, we can use OUR CLOUD, and not THEIR CLOUD, wich in turn gave us at least a bit of control over our data, wich is stored is OUR PC (PERSONAL COMPUTER, I guess it still means .... ). For me, it's a very compelling device, and personally, it's the first device that I found appealing among the jungle of devices today...
The one thing I don't understand is why they aren't launching this on the carrier that helped revive Motorola and Android? It's a very forward idea and I think (as Anand suggests) that this will be something that will be more feasible in a few years. But I just don't understand why Motorola would shun VZW and put their "flagship" smartphone on a network that has been, at the very least, reluctant to push Android powered devices.
Probably because -like the iPhone- they want this to be a world phone. CDMA maybe be nice, but it won't work the moment you leave the continent. This has been a deal breaker that kept be away from all VZ's phones for the past 3 years.
I can understand your reasoning and it does make sense.
Basically it's just me being the gadget nut that I am and living in a non-urban area in the middle of the US. Although I could get AT&T service I wouldn't receive their pseudo 4G let alone 3G service. I'm relegated to using Verizon's 3G service due to this geographic limitation and my own unwillingness to deal with AT&T neglecting this area.
Personally, I don't leave the country on a regular basis. And it's just frustrating that most phone manufacturers (understandably) make their flagship phones in a GSM variety. The LG optimus black is another device I'm lusting over, but will have to wait (and it may never happen) until they port it to CDMA.
Unfortunately, work/family keep me here and I guess it's just a reality I'll have to deal with. :)
Spidey, I think you have the business relationship between the carriers & Motorola turned around. The carriers are the customer that pick what design/feature set they would like to have for their chosen phone lineup among a pool of possible designs & functions offered by Motorola. (It is this type of relationship Google was attempting to change by offering the Nexus One direct to customers). If AT&T is getting the webtop & not Verizon Wireless, it's because AT&T pushed for getting it and Verizon did not.
Of course the reason AT&T is doing this is because they are loosing iPhone exclusivity & need a new 'hero' device. Loosing iPhone exclusivity at AT&T will be huge for Android in the long run. Now all 4 major US carriers are pushing high-end Androids where as before AT&T tended to pick only mid to low tier Android smartphones (for whatever reason -- I suspect a gentleman's agreement with Apple).
BTW, that goes for the software that is on the device too. Don't like Bing replacing Google? -- blame the carrier. Don't like all the preloaded crapware that you can't delete? -- complain to the carrier.
You can plug a keyboard and mouse into an N8 and pipe the output to a monitor via HDMI. The kb + mouse are fully usable - an onscreen cursor automatically pops up when you connect a mouse.
You can also remote desktop to a windows PC via a 3rd party (Java) app, but the interface on the app I used was very sucky - I haven't tried it with external input devices, don't know if it will accept mouse input.
Speaking of which, how are we going with that N8 review, Mithun? It's been well over 3 months since the phone came out, I got tired of waiting for AT to review it and took the plunge - very happy with it.
I get a taste of some pessimism in this article compared to the first where you seemed more enthusiastic and wrote "You’re looking at the smartphone’s first steps into the realm of the PC".
You say that the browsing performance isn't that great and that the tabbing animation isn't that smooth. I watched Engadgets hands-on video http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/motorola-atrix-... and felt everything was buttery smooth. Could there have been some process in the background messing it up for you? Any comment on that?
Maybe when hackers figure a way to replace Firefox with Chrome (which scales to all available cores, unlike Firefox), the browsing experience will be a whole lot better.
The difference compared to the N8 is that the N8 just runs the phone window (640x360) full screen and that doesn't look very good at all. Just look at the photo above with the Atrix doing the same at 960x540, still not good.
So to be able to dock you really need something like Webtop or Honeycomb.
I thought the same thing initially (in fact I assumed before seeing the pictures that the phone would be used as the track-pad on the Webtop accessory). But I suspect they abandoned that concept for 2 major reasons: 1) Thickness. you'll note the entire Webtop is only slightly thicker than the phone and about 1/3rd of that thickness is display, so providing a port for the entire phone in the bottom portion of the Webtop would have increased it's thickness considerably. 2) Flexibility. You'll note that the phone connector looks really design-agnostic (aside from a fixed distance between the micro HDMI & USB ports). I suspect this is because Motorola plans on a whole ecosystem of future phones & accessories that will be cross-compatible. Allowing several different phones to connect to the same Webtop is crucial for convincing consumers to buy what will likely one of the more expensive phone accessories out there.
Good points. Also, the fact having the screen's touch detection of the Atrix constantly on when docked would probably get in the way of it recharging -unless it's a SAMOLED phone and they can have a few white arrows displayed on a black background.
I think its possible to run the digitizer w/o running the screen, so not much battery drain. But as previously said, the thickness of the keyboard would be a whole lot more if the phone should be used as a track pad.
My alternative would be to slide the phone vertically, down into a pocket on the back of the screen. That way you would also be able to use the phones camera plus you could have the USB and HDMI in the bottom of the phone.
I've been moaning about the lack of applications other than Firefox (read: Chrome, Office) but then for some reason I never imagined it would run a Remote Access app.
This is insane. I wonder if I can stream games from my desktop gaming PC to this "smartphone-powered dock" via HSPA+(the way Onlive works).... is HSPA+ fast enough to do that? I think not.... probably not even LTE can make that happen.
However, it seems fast enough to run Office suite from my PC via remote access, as well as Photoshop. Bloody brilliant.
I can't wait for the other apps hackers will code other than Firefox. Unless that rumored glasses-free 3D phone from HTC blows my mind next month at the MWC, this phone will get my money.
I have faith that the Android community will bring a GB ROM to it, and maybe even HC...
I hope Google themselves will run with this and bake it in to every android device too. It is the missing link for Android + ChromeOS and we'll get better form factors and docking mechanisms.
What is the reason behind the success of Tegra2 vs. moorestown/oak trail?
1. Is it that andriod is 'native' to ARM so it runs/will always run better on ARM vs x86? (some what of a permanent disadvantage)
or
2. Andriod x86 version is simply late? (temporary disadvantage)
or
3. Moorestown/Oak Trail are simply not good enough relative to Tegra on hardware basis? (value proposition on power managemetn/horsepower/price not good enough)
From what I can gather, the Cortex A9 performs quite similar to Atom clock-for-clock, but the equivalent Atom package would require three to four times the power to do so (based on TDPs, anyhow). The integrated GPUs in most A9 SoCs are also significantly more performant than the IGPU that is shipped with Atom, which could make a bigger impact when you start trying to save power by hardware accelerating things.
Atom doesn't really have any performance advantage over the Cortex A9 at any power point. From an architectural standpoint, the A9 goes up to a 2GHz quad-core, although you'll never find anything that power hungry in a smartphone. Atom's big fault is that it hasn't seen any real improvements in almost three years; they're even still on a 45nm process despite the fact that they moved their desktop processors to 32nm over a year ago, and are about to move their desktop processors to 22nm. You'd think that the mobile space, where power levels are super important, would be the most important place to get die shrinks.
Leads me to believe that Intel has had something baking for at least three years now to succeed Atom. You know they are not going to take this lying down.
If you listen to marketing people at least, there are already plenty of users who already carry a phone and a tablet or netbook. So if the webtop dock could be substantially cheaper than those devices for those users it would make sense.
yes, these are quite exciting times...but realistically, how do we integrate everything as to make the system simple especially for the business users. this struck me just now with this Motorola post. attaching the phone on dock makes sense with citrix.
i'm quite expecting the vendor who could somehow integrate or make to most of this, will win: x86, ARM, smartphone, tablets, notebooks, powerful desktops, cloud, work, home, play, virtualization...
Any idea how they got the full desktop Firefox to run on the docked Atrix 4G? Is it an emulator? I'm asking because the program was coded for Windows, not Android.
Also, does that mean we'll be able to run the desktop Chrome instead?
Interesting question. Blind guess: it's a fairly straight port. FF is multi-platform and they've been working in the mobile space for quite a while. Although the Android version is still beta (and it's v4, Atrix looks like v3.6 or thereabouts), the work goes back a ways; e.g., LiMo of which Moto is also a member as seen with the Razr2.
The first question that came to my mind is: Are those dock apps Android, or running next to it on a different non-Android stack? The Cortex A9 offers a couple options for how they might run dual (or more) stacks rather than stuffing everything into Android (e.g., ASMP or virtualization). The latter allows for some very interesting possibilities. Probably wishful thinking on my part and a bit too bleeding edge today; maybe some day.
Thanks. Yes, the "Debian-based webtop interface" mentioned on a couple stes suggests more than simply a FF browser. The question: What's the difference between the "FF/webtop interface", "Debian-based webtop interface" and "Debian [Linux]"?
MotoDev references "Developing for the Webtop Application" and not, e.g., "Developing for the [Debian] webtop interface", so it's still clear as mud to me as to what it is. Am I working in some sort of weird or constrained Moto-specific FF/webtop environment (bad IMHO), or a more general, substantive and unconstrained Linux/Debian environment (good IMHO)?
The difference is going to matter a lot in terms of acceptance and support from the open source community. If it's an odd/closed Moto-specific distro, then I'll likely pass (as will most IMHO); else I think Moto will get a lot of support. Maybe some dev's with access to MotoDev can weigh in (without violating NDA of course)?
"The biggest question in all of this is what happens to Intel and AMD as ARM tries to move up the chain. One thing is for sure, Intel’s Atom strategy, at least today, isn’t aggressive enough. For a company less than a year away from transitioning to 22nm, there’s no excuse for Intel to continue to ship Atom at 45nm."
That would be partly due to Intels ambigious stance on Atom. Technically they should have been shipping it at 32nm by now, but the product took a backseat. AMD must realize that Bobcat should evolve from where it is now to keep up with ARM-based SoCs. AMD has predicted heterogenous cores for the future, much like NVIDIA, so my guess is they know what to do.
It looks good, but I fail to see the point though. Just a 100 dollars more would give you an ARM/x86|ATOM board in there too.
Something like a Chrome OS notebook which can sync with the Phone would be better. Just the screen would be one of the highest cost component in a device like this anyway. Just using the phone for mobile internet access would save some 100 dollars though. A thin client laptop which can sync up with the phone I think would be useful.
My point was just that you could create a useful device, a mobile thin client is a great idea. And of course nothing new. Where other non-win thin clients (and win to a degree) failed Chrome OS notebook shows what needs to be done, you need a fully fledge browser that's run locally, access to native multimedia features (as they don't work over a remote connection) and so on. A cheap MIPS or ARM SoC is all that's needed to be put in, the "dock" already has a battery in it. Extra 50-100 dollars would justify it, get access to 4G and GPS via the phone or something and you don't have to tether the device to some expensive data-plan. If done wirelessly you could still make and receive calls. And maybe you could store all the settings on the phone so you don't need to administrate the thin client separately. You can still tie it into the phone or use the same software resources for the different products. An additional SoC won't really complicate it. Besides they are already creating a software stack that could be used for their tablets. Its no more difficult to run Citrix Receiver on that one. It's already out in the wild in phones and other tablets already. Having a keyboard and trackpad would be greatly beneficial for this kind of remote work / browsing full size though. But of course it's kinda useless if the user already has a notebook for remote work. But a thin client solution would still attract those who work or like to work in other ways. But this don't look like a real product anyway.
It's got a 11.6" screen and a battery in addition to keyboard and touchpad, it's definitively hundreds of dollars. The wireless keyboard might be closer to 99.
"One thing is for sure, Intel’s Atom strategy, at least today, isn’t aggressive enough."
Sorry, but that's a bit trite. Maybe in the heat of CES, but I suggest and look forward to your reflection and thoughts in a future article after the CES dust has settled...
It obviously isn't aggressive enough for you, and I'd say the same--at least if Intel is serious about the mobile market. But those are conscious decisions Intel made--for better or worse--some a long time ago, some more recently. And without a lot more data, it's impossible to say whether their strategy is aggressive enough, especially given all the other Intel markets...
1. Intel can not be all things to all people. As I've posted before, that is IMHO the Achilles heel in their business/licensing model vs. ARM. ARM has a far more robust ecosystem when tightly integrated (high-performance/low-power) solutions are required (i.e., SoC's). The Atom Intel/TSMC JV is apparently dead (due to customer concerns over sharing info with Intel?), and now the best we have is Atom FPGA; a non-starter in the mobile space and likely to go the way of the Dodo.
2. Intel has to make tradeoffs, and they obviously have. Would be very interesting to know what Intel's fab allocation looks like. Is Atom simply stuck in the queue waiting for 32nm capacity behind other (higher margin) parts waiting for them to transition, or is there a more fundamental reason? Can't help but think it's more of the former than the latter...
3. Atom got pushed back, Bobcat got pushed forward, while ARM pushes up. If you're into the mobile space, that pretty much says it all. OTOH, the war won't be won or lost based on one CES--although given the domination by Android-ARM-Nvidia it must be very depressing for everyone else. As cfaalm suggested, AMD and NV seem to get it, but Intel seems to need a whack upside the head (at least for the mobile market); maybe this is it.
4. If it was a choice between pushing Sandy Bridge et. al. back 6-9mo and bringing 32nm Atom forward (specifically, smartphone SKU's)--what would you do? Especially given that you're going to break Tick-Tock, anger a lot of OEMs, and reduce your margins and profitability substantially if you delay SB et. al. (at least in the near term)? Is the situation that dire or is this a battle that Intel can delay? I certainly don't have access to Intel's financial/market models, but I would hope and expect they've made informed decisions.
That said, I think Intel's mobile strategy must be either: (a) so carefully crafted and so complex and Byzantine as to be opaque to mere mortals; (b) hopelessly confused; or (c) ruled by inertia. I'd guess (c), and while I think they can overcome that inertia technically in fairly short order (as they have before), that won't help with more fundamental business model problems.
I wanted this since the first time I saw the first Newton from Apple. I recall thinking to myself: "Why the heck do I want a Newton?". Then it occurred to me that if it were the actual core of a PowerBook that I can undock and take with me, then I'd want one.
This is a great idea -and they thought of it - invested millions in engineering - and then excreted this horror. If Apple can make a full fledged computer that weighs 1.5 lbs with a tiny elegant foot print - why is this dock station such a big ugly balky POS. Here's how this will go:
In 2 years Apple will produce a simple 1 pound slice of aluminum, that functions seamlessly, and steal the market.
The trolls will bemoan how Apple "stole the idea" when - in fact - they simply made something people WANT to use, thus something people WANT to have.
When will these companies learn this simple lesson? Are they really so very stupid. Will their stupidity condemn us to a future of itunes mediated media consumption? Pisses me off.
I know, the first thing I thought of when I saw the dock was, "How come the new Macbook Air is much thinner, lighter, and houses a powerful Dual-core configuration??"
But then, maybe it's because the Macbook Air costs $999....
Then again, Motorola could have at least included a webcam...
No one seems to notice that the biggest issue of Atrix is that phone apps are disigned for touch screen, not for pointer-based devices such as mouse and touchpad! So running phone apps on the larger screen will be annoying for most apps. Another issue is that taking/making phone calls makes the user experience disruptive. You have to take the phone from behind and the webtop screen freezes. You can't, for example, continue your stuff while talking to your friend.
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HibyPrime1 - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
The possibilities here are pretty much endless.It has a 36Wh battery, so it could easily charge the phone while you use it in laptop mode.
If that laptop was tablet-convertible, it would very solidly take care of the 3 computing areas that have emerged in the last few years (netbooks, smartphones, and tablets) in one (sort of) device.
If they can keep this package at <$1000 off contract (~$300 on contract), I can imagine a lot of people will want it.
Intel has a play here too. If they implement WiDi into Atom efficiently, they could realize nvidia's vision without much effort.
ImSpartacus - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
I agree. This form factor is the start of something big.Wireless pairing would be nice, but I really want to charge up my phone if it's docked. To achieve a more complete experience, maybe the phone could be docked into the palmrest and become the trackpad? The entire phone could "click" down when pushed. Then you could use both the phone and the larger screen at the same time.
The possibilities are endless.
And in ten years, we'll still call them "phones"...
anactoraaron - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
...or having the phone dock spring loaded (seamlessly so it wouldn't stick out of the screen) on the side or top of the screen and it would make the 'tablet-convertible' entirely possible. Just need a 10" or larger touchscreen to dock it to. You could hold it any way you wanted and the phone's accelerometer would do the rest. The keyboard could then snap on for use when you need it.But this idea has to start somewhere...
danielt - Tuesday, January 18, 2011 - link
I had thought of both the ideas that ImSpartacus and anactoraaron mentioned here, a few months ago.I sent these ideas to HTC, but they never replied..haha!
guoxing - Friday, July 1, 2011 - link
this is really a good cell phone if you want to buy ityou should go to
http://www.2011bestphone.com/?p=73
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GTaudiophile - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Anand,I watched the video and press release about this thing on Engadget the other day. After watching the demo, I suddenly had an epiphany when I realized that what I had just seen was just the beginning of things to come. I think within 5 years, the processing power on these phones will be as good as what we currently experience on high-end desktops. As the technology continues to mature, the gap between SmartPhone and desktop will narrow. Just like every hotel now as an iPod dock integrated into the bedside radio, phone docks of sorts will become ubiquitus in society. Combined with 42+ Mbps wireless speeds and advancements in "cloud" computing, my home and work offices will always be with me wherever I go, and no matter where I am, I will to do "real" tasks with the "super computer" in my pocket like editing a 10GB movie in Adobe Premier or Final Cut Pro, thanks to the dock setup in my hotel room or elsewhere.
If the likes of Intel/AMD/Microsoft, etc. are not aware of where this is all going and still think that the future is on the big desktop at home or at the office, then I think the writing is on the wall for those companies.
Finally, what Motorola just displayed here is something that WP7 should have been capable of doing at launch. After all, MS has a lot to lose here. Instead, WP7 did not come out swinging and came out unfinished. Copy and past, anyone? Now all one can hear from the WP7 camp during CES is the sound of crickets as their mobile OS sinks to a very distant third or fourth in mindshare.
thril - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Forget dock's, wireless power in your living room, car or hotel room:http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/eric_giler_demos...
TareX - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
I was initially blown away, but then I took a step back and tried to imagine its use in real life.... If I leave my laptop behind and take the dock and smartphone instead.The things I would miss:
- Video chatting on my laptop (v.imp when I'm away)
- Catching up on work (MS Office intensive)
So yeah I can do without the latter (use a Remote App) but won't be able to Video chat while getting stuff done on my laptop... (due to the unfortunate placement of the phone...not even a software hack will fix it)
Akrovah - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Both of those are easily fixed though.Put an additional camera on the dock's screen
You can already link to and use a Widnows PC with software already written for this thing. Even if the refresh rate sucks now as mobile data speeds improve so will that.
I think we may be looking at the future of mobile computing, and combined with MS's announcement of an ARM powered Windows these may also be the first steps of ARM supplanting x86 as the architechture of choice for all computing.
EyelessBlond - Sunday, January 9, 2011 - link
How's this for a mind-bender: what if you could have both x86 and ARM?Both AMD and Intel are already putting x86 cores on the same chip as graphics cards. Why not put an ARM core or two (or four) on there too? Then, with a properly written OS, you would be able to run those legaxy x86 programs and all your new iPhone/Android apps on the same machine, without emulation. Use the smaller ARM cores most of the time, and use power gating to only boot up the extra ARM cores/x86 cores when you need them.
ImSpartacus - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
This particular product cannot do those things, but a future version could.A webcam could easily be placed on the chassis.
And if the product used an ARM (ie. Phone) driven copy of Chrome OS, you could get some work done with Google Docs.
Nitecaller - Tuesday, February 8, 2011 - link
Guys your forgetting about Documents to Go! I have it on my Incredible and can write Word, Excel, and Powerpoints off my phone. Now we just need a way to access our Windows home servers with Android phones so we can create and save our files easily while we are away from home.This is a sweet phone but unfortunatly it's only on AT&T's network for now. Hope they have one with a Tablet style dock for Verizon later on when Android 3.0 is done. :)
greylica - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Most of Smartphones and Tablets today are guided towards comsumption of data/multimedia. This shifts comsumption for creation a bit, even if little. First, the most impressive thing its the fact that we could use a Cell phone to connect to the Internet and use it as a Netbook often times, using a ''qwerty'' keyboard that is much more usefull than typing on a screen; Second, if we have to use a full fledged Desktop acessing it via TSR, VNC, etc, we can use OUR CLOUD, and not THEIR CLOUD, wich in turn gave us at least a bit of control over our data, wich is stored is OUR PC (PERSONAL COMPUTER, I guess it still means .... ). For me, it's a very compelling device, and personally, it's the first device that I found appealing among the jungle of devices today...spidey81 - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
The one thing I don't understand is why they aren't launching this on the carrier that helped revive Motorola and Android? It's a very forward idea and I think (as Anand suggests) that this will be something that will be more feasible in a few years. But I just don't understand why Motorola would shun VZW and put their "flagship" smartphone on a network that has been, at the very least, reluctant to push Android powered devices.TareX - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Probably because -like the iPhone- they want this to be a world phone. CDMA maybe be nice, but it won't work the moment you leave the continent. This has been a deal breaker that kept be away from all VZ's phones for the past 3 years.spidey81 - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
I can understand your reasoning and it does make sense.Basically it's just me being the gadget nut that I am and living in a non-urban area in the middle of the US. Although I could get AT&T service I wouldn't receive their pseudo 4G let alone 3G service. I'm relegated to using Verizon's 3G service due to this geographic limitation and my own unwillingness to deal with AT&T neglecting this area.
Personally, I don't leave the country on a regular basis. And it's just frustrating that most phone manufacturers (understandably) make their flagship phones in a GSM variety. The LG optimus black is another device I'm lusting over, but will have to wait (and it may never happen) until they port it to CDMA.
Unfortunately, work/family keep me here and I guess it's just a reality I'll have to deal with. :)
strikeback03 - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Droid 2 Global and Droid Pro are both CDMA and GSM devices, no not like Motorola can't do that.If you want to buy into conspiracy theory maybe Verizon is about to get the Iphone, so AT&T ponied up more money for this.
sammsiam - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Spidey, I think you have the business relationship between the carriers & Motorola turned around. The carriers are the customer that pick what design/feature set they would like to have for their chosen phone lineup among a pool of possible designs & functions offered by Motorola. (It is this type of relationship Google was attempting to change by offering the Nexus One direct to customers). If AT&T is getting the webtop & not Verizon Wireless, it's because AT&T pushed for getting it and Verizon did not.Of course the reason AT&T is doing this is because they are loosing iPhone exclusivity & need a new 'hero' device. Loosing iPhone exclusivity at AT&T will be huge for Android in the long run. Now all 4 major US carriers are pushing high-end Androids where as before AT&T tended to pick only mid to low tier Android smartphones (for whatever reason -- I suspect a gentleman's agreement with Apple).
BTW, that goes for the software that is on the device too. Don't like Bing replacing Google? -- blame the carrier. Don't like all the preloaded crapware that you can't delete? -- complain to the carrier.
Portablenuke - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Because Verizon will be going LTE along with AT&T in the coming years, and Motorola doesn't have anything cool on AT&T right now.Plus, the rest of the world is GSM and this will probably sell really well in Europe and Asia. Probably not in the US, but elsewhere.
Voldenuit - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Well, sort of.You can plug a keyboard and mouse into an N8 and pipe the output to a monitor via HDMI. The kb + mouse are fully usable - an onscreen cursor automatically pops up when you connect a mouse.
You can also remote desktop to a windows PC via a 3rd party (Java) app, but the interface on the app I used was very sucky - I haven't tried it with external input devices, don't know if it will accept mouse input.
Speaking of which, how are we going with that N8 review, Mithun? It's been well over 3 months since the phone came out, I got tired of waiting for AT to review it and took the plunge - very happy with it.
snoozemode - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
I get a taste of some pessimism in this article compared to the first where you seemed more enthusiastic and wrote "You’re looking at the smartphone’s first steps into the realm of the PC".You say that the browsing performance isn't that great and that the tabbing animation isn't that smooth. I watched Engadgets hands-on video http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/motorola-atrix-... and felt everything was buttery smooth. Could there have been some process in the background messing it up for you? Any comment on that?
TareX - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Maybe when hackers figure a way to replace Firefox with Chrome (which scales to all available cores, unlike Firefox), the browsing experience will be a whole lot better.snoozemode - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
The difference compared to the N8 is that the N8 just runs the phone window (640x360) full screen and that doesn't look very good at all. Just look at the photo above with the Atrix doing the same at 960x540, still not good.So to be able to dock you really need something like Webtop or Honeycomb.
Shadowmaster625 - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
The phone should insert into the chassis, not just hanging there like something begging to be broken off.TareX - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Or it could act as a high-end, glass, 4" big trackpad...softdrinkviking - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Good point. Whatever can happen, will happen.sammsiam - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
I thought the same thing initially (in fact I assumed before seeing the pictures that the phone would be used as the track-pad on the Webtop accessory). But I suspect they abandoned that concept for 2 major reasons:1) Thickness. you'll note the entire Webtop is only slightly thicker than the phone and about 1/3rd of that thickness is display, so providing a port for the entire phone in the bottom portion of the Webtop would have increased it's thickness considerably.
2) Flexibility. You'll note that the phone connector looks really design-agnostic (aside from a fixed distance between the micro HDMI & USB ports). I suspect this is because Motorola plans on a whole ecosystem of future phones & accessories that will be cross-compatible. Allowing several different phones to connect to the same Webtop is crucial for convincing consumers to buy what will likely one of the more expensive phone accessories out there.
Just my guess.
TareX - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Good points. Also, the fact having the screen's touch detection of the Atrix constantly on when docked would probably get in the way of it recharging -unless it's a SAMOLED phone and they can have a few white arrows displayed on a black background.snoozemode - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
I think its possible to run the digitizer w/o running the screen, so not much battery drain. But as previously said, the thickness of the keyboard would be a whole lot more if the phone should be used as a track pad.My alternative would be to slide the phone vertically, down into a pocket on the back of the screen. That way you would also be able to use the phones camera plus you could have the USB and HDMI in the bottom of the phone.
sammsiam - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
I like that idea! (using the phone as a webcam)...still, that would probably break point #2 (cross compatibility with other phones).warisz00r - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Made something similar to the Atrix 4G + Webtop in concept, but instead places the dock such that the docked phone acts as a touchpad?TareX - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
I've been moaning about the lack of applications other than Firefox (read: Chrome, Office) but then for some reason I never imagined it would run a Remote Access app.This is insane. I wonder if I can stream games from my desktop gaming PC to this "smartphone-powered dock" via HSPA+(the way Onlive works).... is HSPA+ fast enough to do that? I think not.... probably not even LTE can make that happen.
However, it seems fast enough to run Office suite from my PC via remote access, as well as Photoshop. Bloody brilliant.
I can't wait for the other apps hackers will code other than Firefox. Unless that rumored glasses-free 3D phone from HTC blows my mind next month at the MWC, this phone will get my money.
I have faith that the Android community will bring a GB ROM to it, and maybe even HC...
sammsiam - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
TareX, see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WzeIGZKW_Y&fea...I'm guessing framerates would be too slow for a FPS, but some slower games should work fine.
misaki - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
I hope Google themselves will run with this and bake it in to every android device too. It is the missing link for Android + ChromeOS and we'll get better form factors and docking mechanisms.Akaz1976 - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
What is the reason behind the success of Tegra2 vs. moorestown/oak trail?1. Is it that andriod is 'native' to ARM so it runs/will always run better on ARM vs x86? (some what of a permanent disadvantage)
or
2. Andriod x86 version is simply late? (temporary disadvantage)
or
3. Moorestown/Oak Trail are simply not good enough relative to Tegra on hardware basis? (value proposition on power managemetn/horsepower/price not good enough)
Guspaz - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
From what I can gather, the Cortex A9 performs quite similar to Atom clock-for-clock, but the equivalent Atom package would require three to four times the power to do so (based on TDPs, anyhow). The integrated GPUs in most A9 SoCs are also significantly more performant than the IGPU that is shipped with Atom, which could make a bigger impact when you start trying to save power by hardware accelerating things.Atom doesn't really have any performance advantage over the Cortex A9 at any power point. From an architectural standpoint, the A9 goes up to a 2GHz quad-core, although you'll never find anything that power hungry in a smartphone. Atom's big fault is that it hasn't seen any real improvements in almost three years; they're even still on a 45nm process despite the fact that they moved their desktop processors to 32nm over a year ago, and are about to move their desktop processors to 22nm. You'd think that the mobile space, where power levels are super important, would be the most important place to get die shrinks.
GTaudiophile - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Leads me to believe that Intel has had something baking for at least three years now to succeed Atom. You know they are not going to take this lying down.TareX - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
"...although you'll never find anything that power hungry in a smartphone."Until Glasses-free 3D becomes the norm, and smartphones face the need to have to render every frame twice... :)
Stuka87 - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Did they mention how it will treat incoming calls? Does the webtop have a mic and speakers for speaker phone?sammsiam - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
I heard (NOT confirmed) that the Webtop has it's own speakers (& I'd guess mic)...just a guess though.You could always use a bluetooth headset while it's plugged in to the webtop dock.
th3pwn3r - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Does anyone else think that this defeats the purpose of a portable, smart phone? Hmm....strikeback03 - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
If you listen to marketing people at least, there are already plenty of users who already carry a phone and a tablet or netbook. So if the webtop dock could be substantially cheaper than those devices for those users it would make sense.zodiacfml - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
yes, these are quite exciting times...but realistically, how do we integrate everything as to make the system simple especially for the business users. this struck me just now with this Motorola post. attaching the phone on dock makes sense with citrix.i'm quite expecting the vendor who could somehow integrate or make to most of this, will win:
x86, ARM, smartphone, tablets, notebooks, powerful desktops, cloud, work, home, play, virtualization...
TareX - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Hey Anand,Any idea how they got the full desktop Firefox to run on the docked Atrix 4G? Is it an emulator? I'm asking because the program was coded for Windows, not Android.
Also, does that mean we'll be able to run the desktop Chrome instead?
has407 - Saturday, January 8, 2011 - link
Interesting question. Blind guess: it's a fairly straight port. FF is multi-platform and they've been working in the mobile space for quite a while. Although the Android version is still beta (and it's v4, Atrix looks like v3.6 or thereabouts), the work goes back a ways; e.g., LiMo of which Moto is also a member as seen with the Razr2.The first question that came to my mind is: Are those dock apps Android, or running next to it on a different non-Android stack? The Cortex A9 offers a couple options for how they might run dual (or more) stacks rather than stuffing everything into Android (e.g., ASMP or virtualization). The latter allows for some very interesting possibilities. Probably wishful thinking on my part and a bit too bleeding edge today; maybe some day.
TareX - Sunday, January 9, 2011 - link
I read some chatter online that suggests that it's a Debian app...has407 - Sunday, January 9, 2011 - link
Thanks. Yes, the "Debian-based webtop interface" mentioned on a couple stes suggests more than simply a FF browser. The question: What's the difference between the "FF/webtop interface", "Debian-based webtop interface" and "Debian [Linux]"?MotoDev references "Developing for the Webtop Application" and not, e.g., "Developing for the [Debian] webtop interface", so it's still clear as mud to me as to what it is. Am I working in some sort of weird or constrained Moto-specific FF/webtop environment (bad IMHO), or a more general, substantive and unconstrained Linux/Debian environment (good IMHO)?
The difference is going to matter a lot in terms of acceptance and support from the open source community. If it's an odd/closed Moto-specific distro, then I'll likely pass (as will most IMHO); else I think Moto will get a lot of support. Maybe some dev's with access to MotoDev can weigh in (without violating NDA of course)?
tumbleweed - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
Make the docked smartphone act as the trackpad for the computer.The problem with both these methods is - what if you want to use your handset while you're using the computer?
TareX - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
About the lack of content... well in 32GBs, you can fit in 13 720p HD movies.... which is quite a lot of movies.I'd say you'll put all your music... (3GB?)
7 720p HD movies (15 GB)
4 full 480p sitcom seasons (12 GBs)
...which seams like enough content...
cfaalm - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
"The biggest question in all of this is what happens to Intel and AMD as ARM tries to move up the chain. One thing is for sure, Intel’s Atom strategy, at least today, isn’t aggressive enough. For a company less than a year away from transitioning to 22nm, there’s no excuse for Intel to continue to ship Atom at 45nm."That would be partly due to Intels ambigious stance on Atom. Technically they should have been shipping it at 32nm by now, but the product took a backseat. AMD must realize that Bobcat should evolve from where it is now to keep up with ARM-based SoCs. AMD has predicted heterogenous cores for the future, much like NVIDIA, so my guess is they know what to do.
Penti - Friday, January 7, 2011 - link
It looks good, but I fail to see the point though. Just a 100 dollars more would give you an ARM/x86|ATOM board in there too.Something like a Chrome OS notebook which can sync with the Phone would be better. Just the screen would be one of the highest cost component in a device like this anyway. Just using the phone for mobile internet access would save some 100 dollars though. A thin client laptop which can sync up with the phone I think would be useful.
Penti - Saturday, January 8, 2011 - link
My point was just that you could create a useful device, a mobile thin client is a great idea. And of course nothing new. Where other non-win thin clients (and win to a degree) failed Chrome OS notebook shows what needs to be done, you need a fully fledge browser that's run locally, access to native multimedia features (as they don't work over a remote connection) and so on. A cheap MIPS or ARM SoC is all that's needed to be put in, the "dock" already has a battery in it. Extra 50-100 dollars would justify it, get access to 4G and GPS via the phone or something and you don't have to tether the device to some expensive data-plan. If done wirelessly you could still make and receive calls. And maybe you could store all the settings on the phone so you don't need to administrate the thin client separately. You can still tie it into the phone or use the same software resources for the different products. An additional SoC won't really complicate it. Besides they are already creating a software stack that could be used for their tablets. Its no more difficult to run Citrix Receiver on that one. It's already out in the wild in phones and other tablets already. Having a keyboard and trackpad would be greatly beneficial for this kind of remote work / browsing full size though. But of course it's kinda useless if the user already has a notebook for remote work. But a thin client solution would still attract those who work or like to work in other ways. But this don't look like a real product anyway.bezgranicaha - Saturday, January 8, 2011 - link
I just want to thank you for create the best forum. Gracias adminos!need good e-mail? - test http://www.o2.pl">poczta
:)
TareX - Saturday, January 8, 2011 - link
No way will the dock cost $250, or $150. I give it a maximum of $99.Penti - Monday, January 10, 2011 - link
It's got a 11.6" screen and a battery in addition to keyboard and touchpad, it's definitively hundreds of dollars. The wireless keyboard might be closer to 99.TareX - Monday, January 17, 2011 - link
Not with netbooks going on sale for $199.has407 - Sunday, January 9, 2011 - link
"One thing is for sure, Intel’s Atom strategy, at least today, isn’t aggressive enough."Sorry, but that's a bit trite. Maybe in the heat of CES, but I suggest and look forward to your reflection and thoughts in a future article after the CES dust has settled...
It obviously isn't aggressive enough for you, and I'd say the same--at least if Intel is serious about the mobile market. But those are conscious decisions Intel made--for better or worse--some a long time ago, some more recently. And without a lot more data, it's impossible to say whether their strategy is aggressive enough, especially given all the other Intel markets...
1. Intel can not be all things to all people. As I've posted before, that is IMHO the Achilles heel in their business/licensing model vs. ARM. ARM has a far more robust ecosystem when tightly integrated (high-performance/low-power) solutions are required (i.e., SoC's). The Atom Intel/TSMC JV is apparently dead (due to customer concerns over sharing info with Intel?), and now the best we have is Atom FPGA; a non-starter in the mobile space and likely to go the way of the Dodo.
2. Intel has to make tradeoffs, and they obviously have. Would be very interesting to know what Intel's fab allocation looks like. Is Atom simply stuck in the queue waiting for 32nm capacity behind other (higher margin) parts waiting for them to transition, or is there a more fundamental reason? Can't help but think it's more of the former than the latter...
3. Atom got pushed back, Bobcat got pushed forward, while ARM pushes up. If you're into the mobile space, that pretty much says it all. OTOH, the war won't be won or lost based on one CES--although given the domination by Android-ARM-Nvidia it must be very depressing for everyone else. As cfaalm suggested, AMD and NV seem to get it, but Intel seems to need a whack upside the head (at least for the mobile market); maybe this is it.
4. If it was a choice between pushing Sandy Bridge et. al. back 6-9mo and bringing 32nm Atom forward (specifically, smartphone SKU's)--what would you do? Especially given that you're going to break Tick-Tock, anger a lot of OEMs, and reduce your margins and profitability substantially if you delay SB et. al. (at least in the near term)? Is the situation that dire or is this a battle that Intel can delay? I certainly don't have access to Intel's financial/market models, but I would hope and expect they've made informed decisions.
That said, I think Intel's mobile strategy must be either: (a) so carefully crafted and so complex and Byzantine as to be opaque to mere mortals; (b) hopelessly confused; or (c) ruled by inertia. I'd guess (c), and while I think they can overcome that inertia technically in fairly short order (as they have before), that won't help with more fundamental business model problems.
trip1ex - Sunday, January 9, 2011 - link
in a million years.What if you get a phone call? You have to talk to your laptop?
Or shut it and take out your phone and then ... no laptop connection?
Maybe I want to look at some info on my laptop while talking on the phone? Or I want to leave the room quickly. etc.
IT's a messy solution.
Plus experience shows this type of "dock" ain't going to be cheap. The price will then be in netbook territory and maybe Ipad territory.
Nah you can just transfer your information to your computer. To your laptop. To your Ipad. .....
It won't take long. No one will need to be transferring video back and forth from smartphone to computer all the time.
And what if you lose your phone? Or decide to get a different phone? ......
I'm telling you. NEver going to happen in a million years.
Nerd's wet dream is all the farther this solution gets.
NeoUser - Monday, January 10, 2011 - link
I wanted this since the first time I saw the first Newton from Apple. I recall thinking to myself: "Why the heck do I want a Newton?". Then it occurred to me that if it were the actual core of a PowerBook that I can undock and take with me, then I'd want one.appliance5000 - Thursday, January 13, 2011 - link
This is a great idea -and they thought of it - invested millions in engineering - and then excreted this horror. If Apple can make a full fledged computer that weighs 1.5 lbs with a tiny elegant foot print - why is this dock station such a big ugly balky POS. Here's how this will go:In 2 years Apple will produce a simple 1 pound slice of aluminum, that functions seamlessly, and steal the market.
The trolls will bemoan how Apple "stole the idea" when - in fact - they simply made something people WANT to use, thus something people WANT to have.
When will these companies learn this simple lesson? Are they really so very stupid. Will their stupidity condemn us to a future of itunes mediated media consumption? Pisses me off.
TareX - Monday, January 17, 2011 - link
I know, the first thing I thought of when I saw the dock was, "How come the new Macbook Air is much thinner, lighter, and houses a powerful Dual-core configuration??"But then, maybe it's because the Macbook Air costs $999....
Then again, Motorola could have at least included a webcam...
danielt - Tuesday, January 18, 2011 - link
No one seems to notice that the biggest issue of Atrix is that phone apps are disigned for touch screen, not for pointer-based devices such as mouse and touchpad!So running phone apps on the larger screen will be annoying for most apps.
Another issue is that taking/making phone calls makes the user experience disruptive. You have to take the phone from behind and the webtop screen freezes. You can't, for example, continue your stuff while talking to your friend.