*preemptive rage* It's a copy of the Surface Pro! *preemptive rage* *preemptive rage* It's too expensive! *preemptive rage* *preemptive rage* It's just a toy! You can't do Real Work (TM) on it! *preemptive rage*
I don't see why... This has no use in my mind. I still have my iPad 3, which I don't use - and I cannot see myself getting another iPad.
I think that for a tablet I would go with the new Surface Pro. Too bad it cannot play nicely with my iPhone and rMBP (iMessage, FT, etc.), but it is what it is I guess.
Then you haven't found any apps that are more useful than what you can get on Windows.
I bought a surface 3 thinking I would use it more. I did for awhile. But in the end, it is too clunky as far as touch, scrolling, accidental clicks, etc. Pen works great though. So back to iPad for me now that it has a pen. Everything just runs smooth, programs just seem more elegant, better integration with the os, and I have found apps that just work so much better than on Windows. My 2cents
I think most of us would go Surface Pro 3 with little hesitation. It's not a cheap machine, but it's really fuckin good.
However, we live in a world where people buy Macs without any hesitation of software compatibility. A lot of people do just fine with a browser and super-basic productivity software.
But the iOS situation actually isn't even as bad as OSX in the olden days. It definitely doesn't have many of the heavy duty programs that enthusiasts need, but it's got A LOT of the stuff that the "average" person needs. So I think the iPad Pro definitely has a chance.
One of my biggest problems with the iPad is that it doesn't have a full desktop-quality browser like the Surface line does. Flash might suck, but it's absolutely a necessary feature still. Hopefully in a few years that's no the case...but that's what people said a few years ago.
Even aside from Flash, mobile Safari just isn't the same thing. It can't always render stuff right or at all (even today), can have weird performance issues, and of course, at least on 512MB and 1GB iOS devices, it dumps tabs constantly, which is super annoying.
In fact I find OSX to have a lot more of the software I *need*. The fact that Windows is only just talking about implementing SSH (in PowerShell) is welcome, but still a bloody joke.
Has Windows 10 added an SSH client? That would be cool...I wouldn't mind SFTP built in to Explorer either. But yeah, while handy, there's too much about Windows I like better to give up over having to use a third party SSH/SFTP client. (I'm using Cyberduck now, which I guess is legit, largely because I remember it from my OS X-as primary OS days, and I like ducks lol)
Office, and Adobe. Lets not forget 3 years ago it was god awful and mac always got updates 2-3 years behind. Its not hip to own a mac, but there is far less software available.. and way far less good free software.
OS X largely has the same stuff, although even there, Apple breaks compatibility with stuff constantly, so it's quite easy to lack some particular program. I run multiple programs from the 90's in Windows 8 and 10 daily, and they run better than they did when they launched. No one else comes close to doing that. Plus just tons of oddball tools I've picked up that just keep working in Windows without worrying about it.
Jesus freaking christ. Why do we have to put up with this generic comment every year. Let's see:
Apple announces iPad: "But I have no use for it" Apple announce aWatch: "But I have no use for it" Apple announces aTV: "But I have no use for it" Apple announces iPad Pro: "But I have no use for it".
Ever consider that maybe you are not the center of the computing universe, and that there's apparently a whole mass of people out there with different needs and desires from you?
It's reasonable to say that YOU have no use for a device. Turns out that I have no need for a z/System. It's even reasonable to ask "how do you plan to use such a device?" What's unreasonable is to just launch into these claims that devices are useless, that the people who buy them are idiots, that the only thing that keeps Apple alive is mindless fashion-following, and so on.
For my part, the primary use case of my iPad (but it is a HUGE) use case is to read technical documents. I will experiment with this model in the Apple store, and if I find that the weight is not problematic then I suspect I will buy it, simply because the extra screen space will probably translate into making it easier to view graphs, and to open and compare two pages side by side.
You may not consider $1000 spent on a technical eBook reader good value for money. Well, guess what, it's MY money not yours, and FOR ME I'd much rather spend $1000 in that way than a Starbucks coffee every day for a year, or a year's subscription to some TV sports package, or a trip to Vegas, or the various other ways that people choose to spend their money.
I think where a lot of that comes from is that the iPad Pro begins to edge into Surface Pro territory at 128GB models, and while the iPad Pro is a great ARM tablet, it's positioning itself to compete with a full x86 computer in a tablet form factor. The Surface Pro 3 has a pen, a high resolution screen, and does just about everything this iPad does (cough magnetic keyboard cover cough cough). In addition, because it runs Windows 10, and an Intel i5 (though at a higher price point admittedly), it can actually run desktop applications, far more than Apple can claim with the iPad.
In my mind, Apple tried to produce a competitor to the Surface Pro 3 (the only competitive Surface so far), and didn't really understand why the SP3 is so popular (x86 support mainly). Now, it will still get sales because it's an iPad, but to make a true competitor, Apple would have been better to give it a Core M and OS X.
Except of course giving it a Core M would require the thickness to be increased and heatpipes added that increase weight as well, and battery life would suffer to boot. OSX on the other hand has no touch or pen support and adding touch/pen support would require rewriting the entire input stack like Microsoft did in Windows 8 (and refined in 10). It would also need to have a touch friendly UI and new suggested application UI style, also like Windows 8 introduced.
The iPad Pro isn't light enough to use one handed, so the weight argument is totally irrelevant. IMO either a tablet is light enough (iPad Air is probably the max weight for really comfortable one-handed use) or it needs two hands. The Surface line all need two hands and so does this new iPad.
Ah, but i use my surface pro 3 and surface 3 with one hand frequently without much issue :) It might not look very pretty, but that kickstand has a second purpose ;)
Wouldn't surprise me either way. Seems like for tablets all chips try to do 4 watts, and can briefly jump to 8, so A9x probably will too.
I have heard that Core M tablets tend to get hotter than ARM and Atom (second or third gen) tablets under load (though Core M also does more work), but basically I'd expect 'em to use about the same.
Actually it's kind of amazing Microsoft's able to use a ULV 15 watt part in something that's very comfortable in the hand :-O
I'm wondering if they're going to switch to Core M, or have like both Core M and ULV models, the latter with active cooling, or what.
I think a lot of people don't get that Apple is very good at targeting specific demographics with their tablets. For example, this year they targeted medical, artistic and musical areas, with some very compelling solutions for their needs. These areas probably don't overlap much with the readership of AnandTech.
The iPad Pro does nothing for me, professionally - at least I can program on a Surface Pro (I don't own one) or Macbook Air. However it is clear that iOS isn't a mere mobile OS any longer, but the walled garden and app restrictions are limiting the markets it can be used in.
Interestingly, the A9X probably significantly outperforms the Core M in the Surface Pro. It has 50GB/s memory bandwidth, 400 GFLOPS+ of GPU power, and likely four ~1.8GHz high-performance custom ARM cores.
I don't buy the artistic thing. For that, the Surface Pro has been where it's at for years. You don't have to mess with some tablet companion program, it runs the real thing.
Regarding A9x, I seriously doubt it's CPU performance compares with a full modern Intel core. I mean Apple's cores are impressive, but they're more competing with Atom. The second gen Cyclone core in A8x is pretty much on par with third gen Atom used in the Surface 3 (not Pro 3).
That's really good by tablet standards, blows away Qualcomm or whatever, but a Broadwell core (or Skylake) is going to smoke it.
It seems that in your mind this thread is about criticizing people who want to get an iPad Pro. I'd suggest treatment for that frustration you experience. It clouds your ability to actually understand what you read.
The discussion simply compares two devices in the same category and people write their own point of view for the sake of discussion and opinion sharing.
CLARIFICATION: this comment was written on an iPad!
I really, really want a Surface, BUT may make to with an iPad again solely because I use them as eReaders. The iPad lets you lower brightness in reading programs a lot lower than I've seen non-iOS devices go, and also iOS has Marvel's Unlimited program, which doesn't have a Windows version.
Now actually you can use the website version of that on a Surface-I've heard from someone who does, and says it actually works pretty well, but...if I do an iPad again it'll be for those reasons (both of which are really just software issues, probably!). Otherwise I'd much rather have a real PC...
"I am so buying one come November." - Apple makes nice hardware for sure, but what is the draw for a 13 inch screen tablet? If you are into Apple stuff, wouldnt a 13 inch Macbook suit you better? At the end of the day, this is still just a tablet with a mobile OS, whereas a 13 inch laptop is a full on computer.
>this is [...] a mobile OS, whereas a 13 inch laptop is a full on computer
So, other than the walled garden which people seem to not mind, what's the difference? Face it: there's no difference between a "real" OS and current mobile OSs. Sure, Android/iOS might not suit your workflow but I bet a lot of people don't mind.
I suppose if all you did was browse the web and read email and a few apps it wouldnt matter, but that is part of the question, if that is all you do, why get a 13 inch screen? IF you are going that big and have to lug it around you might as well lug a laptop. Same goes for the Note Pro 12.2, what is the draw vs a full features laptop?
Also, they turn out REALLY polished products. Enthusiasts like us don't notice it, but a lot of people really struggle to use modern tech. Apple's stuff surely isn't perfect, but it's consistently high quality & easy to use. It might be the thinness or style that gets someone to buy their first Apple product, but it's the quality & ease of use that gets the layman to buy their second.
Exactly. iOs is a *full* OS, it doesn't stop half-way. It's a lot more restricted than OSX, sure. OSX is more restricted than Windows. And Windows is A LOT more restricted than Linux. So what?
With freedom comes complexity. Lots of self-identifying "Windows nerds" are not hardcore enough for Linux. Well, lots of people are not hardcore enough for Windows. They like iOS's simplicity. I know, the typical aspie nerd thinks they are all stupid and should die...
In the end, the only thing that matters to most people is programs/apps. iOS has tons of really good apps. There's media players, browsers (if all based on Safari), office apps (Microsoft is releasing Office for iOS...), games, image editors, video editors, etc...
Heh, I know quite a few nerds who seem a bit aspie-ish (and a few that might be outright), and they all buy Apple only. They just decided the alternatives cost too much of their time dealing with. That's why I usually think "insecure" when some pone goes over 9000 aggrroo on people using Macs/Linux/etc. "Aspie"s usually don't give a shit, in my experience anyway.
Of course there's tons of difference. There's no file system on iOS. It's only just now starting to get multitasking support (and then only in programs that support it). It's program compatibility is much more limited. You can't really leave stuff running in the background, etc.
EDIT: Oh, and quite obviously stuff like external hardware support, and even just the ability to use external storage! I *LOVE* that I could just throw in a 64GB Sandisk card in my Windows Phone, and don't think I'll have a problem having that ability with a Windows tablet either :-D
Yeah, there are still serious legacy limitations when it comes to a non-x86 OS. I know my use case definitely couldn't tolerate such limitations (Surface Pro 4 lyfe), but that's just me.
However, if there's any non-x86 OS that can attempt this, it's iOS. iOS easily has the most & best productivity apps for this size of screen. iPad sales have slackened, but it's still easily the best >7" non-x86 tablet by a long shot. That's partially due to it's ridiculously polished hardware, but also due to its built-out app ecosystem. And that ecosystem will be the iPad Pro's greatest strength as I see it.
This is where Apple can test whether they can move any laptops to ARM and/or iOS.
Heh, I was thinking the same thing watching the A9X charts. Once enough companies port their software to iOS for the iPad Pro, the jump to a pn ARM MacBook is not that big anymore.
I don't see that as mattering one way or the other. If it's running OS X on ARM, they'll have to be recompiling their OS X programs for ARM.
It might make some sense to Apple since they've built up this CPU design wing, but it makes no sense to actual users IMO given it would be yet another transition, and they could just buy dirt cheap third gen Atom chips for basically the same price/performance only they'd have vastly better compatibility (though less so than with Windows, since Apple breaks everything every five minutes ;)
I have an original iPad, and I have always wished it were larger. I haven't bought a new iPad because I kept thinking the big model will come out next year. Well... next year is finally here.
I'm not 100% sure that I'll like a 13" screen on a tablet, but I know I could use more than 9.7". The Surface 3's 12" is pretty great, in stores I can't tell that it's any bigger, unless I directly compare it against 10" tablets, so maybe it'll be the same for the 13" iPad too.
I want it for things like reading comics and magazines, so that it can display them at the full size (I assume). Of course for everything else bigger is better too, and it makes multitasking more practical too.
That said, I'm really not 100% sure I'd end up liking the Pro better than an Air 2, I THINK I would, but I'd have to live with it for a while, I guess.
So it's as heavy as SP3, lasts almosts the same, and costs more while functions way way way less... It is well proved that apple can make anything shitty, hype it a ton and charge $$$$ and people flock to buy one..
Well there is the interesting question of how tightly the Apple pencil is tied to the iPad Pro. Is there particular iPad Pro HW that's required to make it function? Or can it work just fine on an existing iPad or iPhone?
If so, I could imagine Apple selling a fair number of them to people skipping the iPad Pro, people who want to sketch, take notes, or make quick drawing-type modifications to things like email messages.
Hell, if Apple is really thinking big, the pen will also work when pressed against existing (or at least soon to come) trackpads, allowing you to use the same pen to draw on your MacBook or iMac...
Today this may all be asking too much. But if there's anything we should have learned from Apple, it's that there's always a long term plan to tie everything ever tighter together. If this year's iPhone screens can't support pens, maybe next year's screens will, and Apple will be telling us at WWDC 2016 "Best practices when adding pen support to your iPhone app"...
For someone who gets overly emotional over the smallest technical details, I can't believe you're ever so remotely comparing a generic, cheap capacitive stylus with some bluetooth functions to a pressure sensitive, active digitizer system.
"here is the interesting question of how tightly the Apple pencil is tied to the iPad Pro" "Hell, if Apple is really thinking big" "if there's anything we should have learned from Apple"
This is my favorite part: "the pen will also work when pressed against existing (or at least soon to come) trackpads" lol.
I'm extremely disappointed. Here I thought there were sensible Apple fans, who aren't apologists, and aren't afraid to criticize the crap out of Apple for pulling a pathetic excuse of a "Pro" tablet that was created to milk the crap out of its loyal fans until they decide it's profitable enough to include a proper pressure sensitive digitizer system. One that doesn't include said revolutionary pencil (lol) in its overpriced tag.
I've read one of your comments replying to someone for being a fanboy in the multi-core/big.little article a couple of days ago. You have no right scolding them when you're actually being the same.
WHAT WE LEARNED FROM APPLE TODAY is that they can be complete ***** who aren't afraid to overcharge, LIE, and take loyal fans for idiots for an iterative product just for having a bigger screen. Oh, and two additional speakers!!!
Dude, before you go all nuclear, have a look at how much the active stylii for iOS devices from Wacom, Adonit et al cost. Heck, Adobe's set was close to $200 last time I checked.
Nuclear? Don't go all emotional and defensive on me folks. I don't have a problem with a product in particular, I have problems with apologists.
"Adobe's set was close to $200 last time I checked"
Other "Pro" tablets that support active digitizers don't charge extra for a stylus. The Surface Pro 3 and Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 and 12.2 come to mind. Surface 3 (atom) doesn't come with one, but it's also significantly cheaper ($50 for the n-trig stylus).
So what is the technical limitation keeping you from using a $50 n-trig stylus on an iProduct (I haven't looked into it)? Is there some hardware deficiency in this (or similar) cheaper stylus vs the $200 apple compatible versions or is this entirely a branding thing?
If you want a sensible, even-headed, emotionless discussion, then you probably shouldn't use caps, swear words or any provocative language in your comment.
It doesn't matter if there's a reasonable point buried in there. If you start with emotion, that's all you'll get in replies.
We all know Apple never makes a value-conscious products, but it's not fair to directly compare the storage Windows & iOS/Android machines. It won't be a big deal when we have ~256GB in these entry-level machines, but 32GB vs 64GB? It matters.
The entry level machines only exist to advertise a low price and then get you to buy up. We all know that.
No one in their right mind would get the entry level sp3. 64gb of Windows storage? What is this, 2011?
And likewise, no one would get a 32gb ipad pro if they actually had any storage-hungry ambitions.
Both the entry level ipad pro and sp3 exist only so they can advertise those cheap prices. Both are terrible.
The point is that the sp3 isn't magically more tolerable because it has an extra 32gb of storage in Windows. It's just as gimped as the entry level ipad pro.
@ImSpartacus "Windows needs the storage. iOS doesn't."
Very true. Nerd1 is comparing a 64GB Windows model to a 32GB IOS model. Are you suggesting Windows needs more than an extra 32GB to make up the difference or are you simply stating that there is no effective capacity advantage either way in this comparison?
"... it's not fair to directly compare the storage Windows & iOS/Android machines." Agreed. You have to take the space the OS takes up off the top. Should be pretty comparable after that point. Unwanted services taking up extra space can be turned off. Of course, the option to use expandable storage tips the comparison if you can put up with carrying an extra item with you. SD card or small usb drive that is always plugged in - sure as long as performance isn't needed. External HDD/SDD, or high speed usb drive - not my idea of an ideal tablet experience. Perhaps fine when using with the keyboard on a table top.
Mmmmmmmm yes and no. Most of the reasons you'd want more storage on a Surface just have to do with the fact that it can use more types of (larger) media, and more types of programs. You can install a 25GB full game on it. It can natively run gigantic high bitrate media files from your TiVo, etc. If you're just comparing reduced "tablet" apps the difference won't be that big.
Plus the Surface line has a MicroSD card slot, so you can cheaply add up to 200GB right now (up to 64GB being dirt cheap).
@Stuka87 "Its not more expensive than a SurfacePro though, their starting prices are identical ($799)."
I understand.
"The MS pen is cheaper costing $50, and the keyboard is a bit cheaper ($130 vs $160)." Sure. When you are already spending $800, an extra 10% can be worth it for some people who prefer the apple environment/workflow. Some would also probably be willing to spend the extra 10% to get the MS environment/workflow.
"So you can save a few dollars when using base models with all accessories, ..." OK. That's pretty black and white."
"... although the top end Surface Pro cost *WAY* more." Hold it right there. Did you just compare an A9X ARM based tablet to an Intel i7 based tablet and seriously expect them to be remotely comparable. Putting aside the significant differences in hardware (Storage capacity / speed, RAM, IO support, Active digitizer, etc.) comparing these two processors isn't unlike comparing desktop and server class processors. The fact that MS has models that use these processors simply allows them to reach a market that Apple currently doesn't cater to. It hold little bearing to the value proposition in the market that Apple does cater to.
You should be comparing Apple's top model to its nearest equivalent and checking out how the price stacks there. I'll let you choose the comparison. That way you can't complain that I'm not comparing the correct models.
This was the first thing that made me go "what the crap..?"
A "Pro" device that edits 4k video with 32GB of storage. Oh, the iPad Pro could have been so much. I hope it is a sales flop, just because I don't want obviously neutered and artificially held back products to be rewarded at all by successful sales of any kind. PLEASE FAIL for all our sakes.
And then what, transfer them back to a real PC using iTunes? Upload them to "the cloud", burning through your entire Comcast monthly allowance? Editing them with all those tools that...need a real full OS on x86? It's just silly, there's no comparison and the "Pro" name doesn't mean anything. (Note that I'm not saying a 13" high end eReader isn't cool, it just ain't a replacement for a real PC.)
Perhaps. IMHO it makes sense, simply in terms of better spreading of demand+manufacturing across the entire year.
It MAY (who knows) also reflect yield problems at TSMC? Maybe A9X yields are currently sufficiently low that Apple was not confident they could meet iPad Air 3 demands and decided it was safer to just let the product slide a few months?
So this pen lacks additional button or eraser, has to be charged every 30 min in very awkward way, and cannot be stored inside the device. Oh and it's extra and apple charges $99 for that, while all other ntrig/synaptics/wacom pens are available around $20-30. Typical apple.
HOW!!!! I get 3:25hrs. That was constantly streaming 10min youtube clips on wifi, while running spotify through a dragonfly USB DAC to my Oppo PM3 headphones. That was just testing. Average workflow Using youtube for review clips, while using word and Spotify Plus DAC I got 4:30hrs
They really need to add SD-XC support and maybe a USB 3.1 typce C for external SSD's. The SOC is damn beast.
With this ipad pro they can actually ditch the new macbook and port OSX to ARM. For casual use/everyday office computing or browsing experience there's no need for x86.
What about a Mac Mini ARM with a port of League of Legends? Come on Yuki Rito.
WHY? x86 is much higher end, and Intel already makes a good low-end ARM competitor-third gen Atom, which has basically the same CPU performance that this will have, for basically the same price.
Why would it be good for consumers to put them through the pain of ANOTHER architecture change, all so that we can have lower end hardware that's not compatible with existing programs?
I don't understand this device. They price it higher than the Surface Pro or MacBook Air, cripple it with iOS and ARM processing, then tell you somehow it's faster than Intel Core i5 or i7 by using a blanket statement of being faster than 80% of PCs sold in the past 12 months. WTF is wrong with this picture. They basically are telling you to pay $500 more for an iPad with a bigger screen. Hell you can already buy an accessory keyboard and pen for $100 on a $499 iPad and get the same pile of crap for 100s less. I'll keep even my Surface Pro 1 over this pile.
It's compelling, but appears hasty and reactionary. It's also not at all what Steve Jobs would have wanted. Microsoft must have gotten under their skin with the surface. Very little details as well. Maybe they nailed it, maybe they didn't. What is known is that the surface did nail it, successfully building a powerful computer into the form factor of a Wacom Cintiq tablet without the cables. While I am a long-time machead/unix guru, I find the rumored surface 4 to be much more interesting, simply because it's a full-blown, programmable computer, and the iPad is still generally a consumer device to distribute content. At least I can run Linux on the surface and not be hobbled by an underpowered CPU.
So hasty and reactionary that it's been rumored for over two years...
Presumably Apple, in their standard fashion, were unwilling to release it until the various pieces were all lined up properly - multitasking in iOS - fast enough GPU to drive a 5K display - pen (plus screen) that did not suffer from the parallax that's common when trying to draw on glass
Hasty and reactionary in execution. It's just a large iPad. I assume they were hoping for some enterprise traction with the Pro moniker, but the fact that Microsoft demoed software at the release tells you how worried they are about the enterprise space.
"the iPad Air 2 also scans at 120Hz which was not advertised"
This may not have been advertised but was known. Apple discussed it (why it was done, and how the whole touch-to-app-to-screen update path worked and was optimized in iOS9) back at WWDC 2015.
"To recharge the Apple Pencil, you just remove the cap at the end and a lightning connector is exposed. You can then plug it into your iPad Pro to charge, with 15 seconds of charging providing 30 minutes of battery life. With a full charge the Apple Pencil will last 12 hours."
WTF??!!?!??? My Surface Pro 3's pen has been using the same battery for a year now, and they're telling us a dumber version without buttons or replaceable tips needs to be charged every day?
I can see my business clients use this. All they do is check emails, spreadsheets, docs and browse the web. On a nice bigger canvas this could be good for them. As the name states, it's Pro not consumer focused.
Wow they are really gouging on that new mini. $400 for a BOM of $140? They are nuts if they think they are going to keep getting away with that kind of gouging.
What makes you think this is any different than what they've done for the past nearly twenty years? They're a hardware company that figured out how to make enterprise-like margins on consumer hardware. That being, having an awesome marketing team.
Has it been confirmed that Apple the iPad mini no longer has a reduced color gamut? The article says it appears that it has been fixed but I'd like to know for sure before ordering.
Thanks for the article. Netflix, Hulu and BBC App is great on iPhone. If live outside USA, you can use tools like UnoTelly to getNetflix, Hulu and BBC on your iPad.
After using Surface Tablets, Fullsize Ipads, and the Nexus 7. I really think the Ipad Mini is the sweet spot. Wish it wasn't second fiddle on specs to the full size ipad. But maybe that is not really that important, with the smaller screen?
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ws3 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
*preemptive rage* It's a copy of the Surface Pro! *preemptive rage**preemptive rage* It's too expensive! *preemptive rage*
*preemptive rage* It's just a toy! You can't do Real Work (TM) on it! *preemptive rage*
But I am so buying one come November.
yvizel - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I don't see why... This has no use in my mind.I still have my iPad 3, which I don't use - and I cannot see myself getting another iPad.
I think that for a tablet I would go with the new Surface Pro. Too bad it cannot play nicely with my iPhone and rMBP (iMessage, FT, etc.), but it is what it is I guess.
Dug - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Then you haven't found any apps that are more useful than what you can get on Windows.I bought a surface 3 thinking I would use it more. I did for awhile. But in the end, it is too clunky as far as touch, scrolling, accidental clicks, etc. Pen works great though. So back to iPad for me now that it has a pen. Everything just runs smooth, programs just seem more elegant, better integration with the os, and I have found apps that just work so much better than on Windows. My 2cents
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I have an air 2 and an i3 Surface Pro 3.ipad = A toy I use for mild browsing and a few games like SimCity BuildIt
SP3 = Everything else
If I have to pick it's the Pro 3 all day long
ImSpartacus - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I think most of us would go Surface Pro 3 with little hesitation. It's not a cheap machine, but it's really fuckin good.However, we live in a world where people buy Macs without any hesitation of software compatibility. A lot of people do just fine with a browser and super-basic productivity software.
But the iOS situation actually isn't even as bad as OSX in the olden days. It definitely doesn't have many of the heavy duty programs that enthusiasts need, but it's got A LOT of the stuff that the "average" person needs. So I think the iPad Pro definitely has a chance.
althaz - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
One of my biggest problems with the iPad is that it doesn't have a full desktop-quality browser like the Surface line does. Flash might suck, but it's absolutely a necessary feature still. Hopefully in a few years that's no the case...but that's what people said a few years ago.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
Even aside from Flash, mobile Safari just isn't the same thing. It can't always render stuff right or at all (even today), can have weird performance issues, and of course, at least on 512MB and 1GB iOS devices, it dumps tabs constantly, which is super annoying.LukeTim - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Care to expand on "heavy duty programs that enthusiasts need"?As an enthusiast who very much prefers OSX to Windows, I do not find the OSX software library to be lacking.
LukeTim - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
In fact I find OSX to have a lot more of the software I *need*. The fact that Windows is only just talking about implementing SSH (in PowerShell) is welcome, but still a bloody joke.fluxtatic - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
Yeah, 'cause it's not like there haven't been alternative SSH programs for 20 years or anythingWolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
Has Windows 10 added an SSH client? That would be cool...I wouldn't mind SFTP built in to Explorer either. But yeah, while handy, there's too much about Windows I like better to give up over having to use a third party SSH/SFTP client. (I'm using Cyberduck now, which I guess is legit, largely because I remember it from my OS X-as primary OS days, and I like ducks lol)Morawka - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Office, and Adobe. Lets not forget 3 years ago it was god awful and mac always got updates 2-3 years behind. Its not hip to own a mac, but there is far less software available.. and way far less good free software.Morawka - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
now***Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
They were referring to iOS, not OS X.OS X largely has the same stuff, although even there, Apple breaks compatibility with stuff constantly, so it's quite easy to lack some particular program. I run multiple programs from the 90's in Windows 8 and 10 daily, and they run better than they did when they launched. No one else comes close to doing that. Plus just tons of oddball tools I've picked up that just keep working in Windows without worrying about it.
LukeTim - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Wait. I misunderstood your comment. Crap. Sorry about that. :Pname99 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Jesus freaking christ. Why do we have to put up with this generic comment every year. Let's see:Apple announces iPad: "But I have no use for it"
Apple announce aWatch: "But I have no use for it"
Apple announces aTV: "But I have no use for it"
Apple announces iPad Pro: "But I have no use for it".
Ever consider that maybe you are not the center of the computing universe, and that there's apparently a whole mass of people out there with different needs and desires from you?
It's reasonable to say that YOU have no use for a device. Turns out that I have no need for a z/System. It's even reasonable to ask "how do you plan to use such a device?"
What's unreasonable is to just launch into these claims that devices are useless, that the people who buy them are idiots, that the only thing that keeps Apple alive is mindless fashion-following, and so on.
For my part, the primary use case of my iPad (but it is a HUGE) use case is to read technical documents. I will experiment with this model in the Apple store, and if I find that the weight is not problematic then I suspect I will buy it, simply because the extra screen space will probably translate into making it easier to view graphs, and to open and compare two pages side by side.
You may not consider $1000 spent on a technical eBook reader good value for money. Well, guess what, it's MY money not yours, and FOR ME I'd much rather spend $1000 in that way than a Starbucks coffee every day for a year, or a year's subscription to some TV sports package, or a trip to Vegas, or the various other ways that people choose to spend their money.
Inteli - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I think where a lot of that comes from is that the iPad Pro begins to edge into Surface Pro territory at 128GB models, and while the iPad Pro is a great ARM tablet, it's positioning itself to compete with a full x86 computer in a tablet form factor. The Surface Pro 3 has a pen, a high resolution screen, and does just about everything this iPad does (cough magnetic keyboard cover cough cough). In addition, because it runs Windows 10, and an Intel i5 (though at a higher price point admittedly), it can actually run desktop applications, far more than Apple can claim with the iPad.In my mind, Apple tried to produce a competitor to the Surface Pro 3 (the only competitive Surface so far), and didn't really understand why the SP3 is so popular (x86 support mainly). Now, it will still get sales because it's an iPad, but to make a true competitor, Apple would have been better to give it a Core M and OS X.
basroil - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Except of course giving it a Core M would require the thickness to be increased and heatpipes added that increase weight as well, and battery life would suffer to boot. OSX on the other hand has no touch or pen support and adding touch/pen support would require rewriting the entire input stack like Microsoft did in Windows 8 (and refined in 10). It would also need to have a touch friendly UI and new suggested application UI style, also like Windows 8 introduced.nerd1 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Except that modern high-performance ARM processor eats just as much power as core M.althaz - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
The iPad Pro isn't light enough to use one handed, so the weight argument is totally irrelevant. IMO either a tablet is light enough (iPad Air is probably the max weight for really comfortable one-handed use) or it needs two hands. The Surface line all need two hands and so does this new iPad.hughlle - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Ah, but i use my surface pro 3 and surface 3 with one hand frequently without much issue :) It might not look very pretty, but that kickstand has a second purpose ;)Morawka - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I bet Core M uses less power than A9X.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
Wouldn't surprise me either way. Seems like for tablets all chips try to do 4 watts, and can briefly jump to 8, so A9x probably will too.I have heard that Core M tablets tend to get hotter than ARM and Atom (second or third gen) tablets under load (though Core M also does more work), but basically I'd expect 'em to use about the same.
Actually it's kind of amazing Microsoft's able to use a ULV 15 watt part in something that's very comfortable in the hand :-O
I'm wondering if they're going to switch to Core M, or have like both Core M and ULV models, the latter with active cooling, or what.
psychobriggsy - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I think a lot of people don't get that Apple is very good at targeting specific demographics with their tablets. For example, this year they targeted medical, artistic and musical areas, with some very compelling solutions for their needs. These areas probably don't overlap much with the readership of AnandTech.The iPad Pro does nothing for me, professionally - at least I can program on a Surface Pro (I don't own one) or Macbook Air. However it is clear that iOS isn't a mere mobile OS any longer, but the walled garden and app restrictions are limiting the markets it can be used in.
Interestingly, the A9X probably significantly outperforms the Core M in the Surface Pro. It has 50GB/s memory bandwidth, 400 GFLOPS+ of GPU power, and likely four ~1.8GHz high-performance custom ARM cores.
Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
I don't buy the artistic thing. For that, the Surface Pro has been where it's at for years. You don't have to mess with some tablet companion program, it runs the real thing.Regarding A9x, I seriously doubt it's CPU performance compares with a full modern Intel core. I mean Apple's cores are impressive, but they're more competing with Atom. The second gen Cyclone core in A8x is pretty much on par with third gen Atom used in the Surface 3 (not Pro 3).
That's really good by tablet standards, blows away Qualcomm or whatever, but a Broadwell core (or Skylake) is going to smoke it.
yvizel - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
It seems that in your mind this thread is about criticizing people who want to get an iPad Pro. I'd suggest treatment for that frustration you experience. It clouds your ability to actually understand what you read.The discussion simply compares two devices in the same category and people write their own point of view for the sake of discussion and opinion sharing.
CLARIFICATION: this comment was written on an iPad!
Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
I really, really want a Surface, BUT may make to with an iPad again solely because I use them as eReaders. The iPad lets you lower brightness in reading programs a lot lower than I've seen non-iOS devices go, and also iOS has Marvel's Unlimited program, which doesn't have a Windows version.Now actually you can use the website version of that on a Surface-I've heard from someone who does, and says it actually works pretty well, but...if I do an iPad again it'll be for those reasons (both of which are really just software issues, probably!). Otherwise I'd much rather have a real PC...
retrospooty - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
"I am so buying one come November."- Apple makes nice hardware for sure, but what is the draw for a 13 inch screen tablet? If you are into Apple stuff, wouldnt a 13 inch Macbook suit you better? At the end of the day, this is still just a tablet with a mobile OS, whereas a 13 inch laptop is a full on computer.
baka_toroi - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
>this is [...] a mobile OS, whereas a 13 inch laptop is a full on computerSo, other than the walled garden which people seem to not mind, what's the difference? Face it: there's no difference between a "real" OS and current mobile OSs. Sure, Android/iOS might not suit your workflow but I bet a lot of people don't mind.
retrospooty - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I suppose if all you did was browse the web and read email and a few apps it wouldnt matter, but that is part of the question, if that is all you do, why get a 13 inch screen? IF you are going that big and have to lug it around you might as well lug a laptop. Same goes for the Note Pro 12.2, what is the draw vs a full features laptop?ImSpartacus - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Apple's walled garden keeps people in.Also, they turn out REALLY polished products. Enthusiasts like us don't notice it, but a lot of people really struggle to use modern tech. Apple's stuff surely isn't perfect, but it's consistently high quality & easy to use. It might be the thinness or style that gets someone to buy their first Apple product, but it's the quality & ease of use that gets the layman to buy their second.
xype - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
You and your sensible answer, what the hell are you doing in the comments section of an Apple post on AnandTech?!Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
Because a notebook is no good as an eReader, and to me at least less desirable on a couch or whatever. They fill very very different rolls for me.tim851 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Exactly. iOs is a *full* OS, it doesn't stop half-way.It's a lot more restricted than OSX, sure. OSX is more restricted than Windows. And Windows is A LOT more restricted than Linux. So what?
With freedom comes complexity. Lots of self-identifying "Windows nerds" are not hardcore enough for Linux. Well, lots of people are not hardcore enough for Windows. They like iOS's simplicity.
I know, the typical aspie nerd thinks they are all stupid and should die...
In the end, the only thing that matters to most people is programs/apps. iOS has tons of really good apps. There's media players, browsers (if all based on Safari), office apps (Microsoft is releasing Office for iOS...), games, image editors, video editors, etc...
Darknite39 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
The "aspie" comment was unnecessary.ImSpartacus - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
It got the point across in a very concise manner. I don't know any single-word synonyms.xype - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Heh, I know quite a few nerds who seem a bit aspie-ish (and a few that might be outright), and they all buy Apple only. They just decided the alternatives cost too much of their time dealing with. That's why I usually think "insecure" when some pone goes over 9000 aggrroo on people using Macs/Linux/etc. "Aspie"s usually don't give a shit, in my experience anyway.Spoony - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I don't follow on how OS X is more restricted than Windows. Can you explain this further?Morawka - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
how about file download and copy to usb? ios cant do that. android can, so can windows who's been doing it for decadesMichael Bay - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Never let the useful functionality stand in the way of profits.That`s the real Jobs legacy.
Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
Of course there's tons of difference. There's no file system on iOS. It's only just now starting to get multitasking support (and then only in programs that support it). It's program compatibility is much more limited. You can't really leave stuff running in the background, etc.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
EDIT: Oh, and quite obviously stuff like external hardware support, and even just the ability to use external storage! I *LOVE* that I could just throw in a 64GB Sandisk card in my Windows Phone, and don't think I'll have a problem having that ability with a Windows tablet either :-Dweb2dot0 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
It's 1.5lbs that's why. 13 in Macbook Pro weighs 4lbs. The new macbook weighs 2lbs, no touch screen. Get it?Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
Even if they were the same weight and had touch, the form factor is just radically different.ImSpartacus - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Yeah, there are still serious legacy limitations when it comes to a non-x86 OS. I know my use case definitely couldn't tolerate such limitations (Surface Pro 4 lyfe), but that's just me.However, if there's any non-x86 OS that can attempt this, it's iOS. iOS easily has the most & best productivity apps for this size of screen. iPad sales have slackened, but it's still easily the best >7" non-x86 tablet by a long shot. That's partially due to it's ridiculously polished hardware, but also due to its built-out app ecosystem. And that ecosystem will be the iPad Pro's greatest strength as I see it.
This is where Apple can test whether they can move any laptops to ARM and/or iOS.
xype - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Heh, I was thinking the same thing watching the A9X charts. Once enough companies port their software to iOS for the iPad Pro, the jump to a pn ARM MacBook is not that big anymore.ImSpartacus - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Yep, everyone is crying, "But the surface pro is better for me!" as if anyone in the real world actually compares the two.Meanwhile, Apple continues to march towards an arm rollout and no one notices. That's the part that I find fascinating.
Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
I don't see that as mattering one way or the other. If it's running OS X on ARM, they'll have to be recompiling their OS X programs for ARM.It might make some sense to Apple since they've built up this CPU design wing, but it makes no sense to actual users IMO given it would be yet another transition, and they could just buy dirt cheap third gen Atom chips for basically the same price/performance only they'd have vastly better compatibility (though less so than with Windows, since Apple breaks everything every five minutes ;)
ws3 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I have an original iPad, and I have always wished it were larger.I haven't bought a new iPad because I kept thinking the big model will come out next year.
Well... next year is finally here.
Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
I've got a 2, and wished it was larger also. I was tempted by the Air 2, but wanted something bigger.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
I'm not 100% sure that I'll like a 13" screen on a tablet, but I know I could use more than 9.7". The Surface 3's 12" is pretty great, in stores I can't tell that it's any bigger, unless I directly compare it against 10" tablets, so maybe it'll be the same for the 13" iPad too.I want it for things like reading comics and magazines, so that it can display them at the full size (I assume). Of course for everything else bigger is better too, and it makes multitasking more practical too.
That said, I'm really not 100% sure I'd end up liking the Pro better than an Air 2, I THINK I would, but I'd have to live with it for a while, I guess.
nerd1 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
So it's as heavy as SP3, lasts almosts the same, and costs more while functions way way way less... It is well proved that apple can make anything shitty, hype it a ton and charge $$$$ and people flock to buy one..retrospooty - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I have decided I will skip the iPad Pro and just buy the $99 Apple pencil.name99 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Well there is the interesting question of how tightly the Apple pencil is tied to the iPad Pro.Is there particular iPad Pro HW that's required to make it function? Or can it work just fine on an existing iPad or iPhone?
If so, I could imagine Apple selling a fair number of them to people skipping the iPad Pro, people who want to sketch, take notes, or make quick drawing-type modifications to things like email messages.
Hell, if Apple is really thinking big, the pen will also work when pressed against existing (or at least soon to come) trackpads, allowing you to use the same pen to draw on your MacBook or iMac...
Today this may all be asking too much. But if there's anything we should have learned from Apple, it's that there's always a long term plan to tie everything ever tighter together. If this year's iPhone screens can't support pens, maybe next year's screens will, and Apple will be telling us at WWDC 2016 "Best practices when adding pen support to your iPhone app"...
lilmoe - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
For someone who gets overly emotional over the smallest technical details, I can't believe you're ever so remotely comparing a generic, cheap capacitive stylus with some bluetooth functions to a pressure sensitive, active digitizer system."here is the interesting question of how tightly the Apple pencil is tied to the iPad Pro"
"Hell, if Apple is really thinking big"
"if there's anything we should have learned from Apple"
This is my favorite part: "the pen will also work when pressed against existing (or at least soon to come) trackpads" lol.
I'm extremely disappointed. Here I thought there were sensible Apple fans, who aren't apologists, and aren't afraid to criticize the crap out of Apple for pulling a pathetic excuse of a "Pro" tablet that was created to milk the crap out of its loyal fans until they decide it's profitable enough to include a proper pressure sensitive digitizer system. One that doesn't include said revolutionary pencil (lol) in its overpriced tag.
I've read one of your comments replying to someone for being a fanboy in the multi-core/big.little article a couple of days ago. You have no right scolding them when you're actually being the same.
WHAT WE LEARNED FROM APPLE TODAY is that they can be complete ***** who aren't afraid to overcharge, LIE, and take loyal fans for idiots for an iterative product just for having a bigger screen. Oh, and two additional speakers!!!
xype - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Dude, before you go all nuclear, have a look at how much the active stylii for iOS devices from Wacom, Adonit et al cost. Heck, Adobe's set was close to $200 last time I checked.lilmoe - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Nuclear? Don't go all emotional and defensive on me folks. I don't have a problem with a product in particular, I have problems with apologists."Adobe's set was close to $200 last time I checked"
Other "Pro" tablets that support active digitizers don't charge extra for a stylus. The Surface Pro 3 and Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 and 12.2 come to mind. Surface 3 (atom) doesn't come with one, but it's also significantly cheaper ($50 for the n-trig stylus).
BurntMyBacon - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
So what is the technical limitation keeping you from using a $50 n-trig stylus on an iProduct (I haven't looked into it)? Is there some hardware deficiency in this (or similar) cheaper stylus vs the $200 apple compatible versions or is this entirely a branding thing?ImSpartacus - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
If you want a sensible, even-headed, emotionless discussion, then you probably shouldn't use caps, swear words or any provocative language in your comment.It doesn't matter if there's a reasonable point buried in there. If you start with emotion, that's all you'll get in replies.
Stuka87 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Its not more expensive than a SurfacePro though, their starting prices are identical ($799).The MS pen is cheaper costing $50, and the keyboard is a bit cheaper ($130 vs $160).
So you can save a few dollars when using base models with all accessories, although the top end Surface Pro cost *WAY* more.
nerd1 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
$799 SP3 has 64GB of ram and comes with a pen. You need $899 to get 32GB IPPro with their 'pencil'ImSpartacus - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Windows needs the storage. iOS doesn't.We all know Apple never makes a value-conscious products, but it's not fair to directly compare the storage Windows & iOS/Android machines. It won't be a big deal when we have ~256GB in these entry-level machines, but 32GB vs 64GB? It matters.
nerd1 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Oh so-called PRO device with non-expandable 32GB storage is sufficient? REALLY?xype - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Isn't file storage what iCloud is for?Morawka - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
with 5GB free? LOL yeah we'll use icloud storage, but it'll cost yapsychobriggsy - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
$12 a year for 50GB apparently. Or $36 a year for 200GB. Not significant compared to the overall cost.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
Not for anything that's taking up that much space. (Not for lots of other things either.) "The cloud" doesn't solve any storage issues I have, at all.ImSpartacus - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
The entry level machines only exist to advertise a low price and then get you to buy up. We all know that.No one in their right mind would get the entry level sp3. 64gb of Windows storage? What is this, 2011?
And likewise, no one would get a 32gb ipad pro if they actually had any storage-hungry ambitions.
Both the entry level ipad pro and sp3 exist only so they can advertise those cheap prices. Both are terrible.
The point is that the sp3 isn't magically more tolerable because it has an extra 32gb of storage in Windows. It's just as gimped as the entry level ipad pro.
lilmoe - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Storage capacity aside, are we really comparing eMMC to SSDs now?BurntMyBacon - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
@ImSpartacus"Windows needs the storage. iOS doesn't."
Very true. Nerd1 is comparing a 64GB Windows model to a 32GB IOS model. Are you suggesting Windows needs more than an extra 32GB to make up the difference or are you simply stating that there is no effective capacity advantage either way in this comparison?
"... it's not fair to directly compare the storage Windows & iOS/Android machines."
Agreed. You have to take the space the OS takes up off the top. Should be pretty comparable after that point. Unwanted services taking up extra space can be turned off. Of course, the option to use expandable storage tips the comparison if you can put up with carrying an extra item with you. SD card or small usb drive that is always plugged in - sure as long as performance isn't needed. External HDD/SDD, or high speed usb drive - not my idea of an ideal tablet experience. Perhaps fine when using with the keyboard on a table top.
nerd1 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
AFAIK windows 10 requires ~15GB while OSX requires ~7GB for system. Not a big deal.osxandwindows - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
Osx 10.11 uses only 3gb on my macWolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
Mmmmmmmm yes and no. Most of the reasons you'd want more storage on a Surface just have to do with the fact that it can use more types of (larger) media, and more types of programs. You can install a 25GB full game on it. It can natively run gigantic high bitrate media files from your TiVo, etc. If you're just comparing reduced "tablet" apps the difference won't be that big.Plus the Surface line has a MicroSD card slot, so you can cheaply add up to 200GB right now (up to 64GB being dirt cheap).
BurntMyBacon - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
@Stuka87"Its not more expensive than a SurfacePro though, their starting prices are identical ($799)."
I understand.
"The MS pen is cheaper costing $50, and the keyboard is a bit cheaper ($130 vs $160)."
Sure. When you are already spending $800, an extra 10% can be worth it for some people who prefer the apple environment/workflow. Some would also probably be willing to spend the extra 10% to get the MS environment/workflow.
"So you can save a few dollars when using base models with all accessories, ..."
OK. That's pretty black and white."
"... although the top end Surface Pro cost *WAY* more."
Hold it right there. Did you just compare an A9X ARM based tablet to an Intel i7 based tablet and seriously expect them to be remotely comparable. Putting aside the significant differences in hardware (Storage capacity / speed, RAM, IO support, Active digitizer, etc.) comparing these two processors isn't unlike comparing desktop and server class processors. The fact that MS has models that use these processors simply allows them to reach a market that Apple currently doesn't cater to. It hold little bearing to the value proposition in the market that Apple does cater to.
You should be comparing Apple's top model to its nearest equivalent and checking out how the price stacks there. I'll let you choose the comparison. That way you can't complain that I'm not comparing the correct models.
B3an - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Of course you'll buy it. Sheep.cknobman - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Cool you're buying one!Please post back with pictures after your purchase so we can all enjoy a good laugh at your stupidity.
Laxaa - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I love how you're supposed to be editing 4K video with a mere 32GB of base storage. Must be very short clips then.baka_toroi - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Yeah, I still keep on thinking how the hell we got to the point were no expandable storage is completely acceptable. The market has spoken, I suppose.SirKronan - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
This was the first thing that made me go "what the crap..?"A "Pro" device that edits 4k video with 32GB of storage. Oh, the iPad Pro could have been so much. I hope it is a sales flop, just because I don't want obviously neutered and artificially held back products to be rewarded at all by successful sales of any kind. PLEASE FAIL for all our sakes.
Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
And then what, transfer them back to a real PC using iTunes? Upload them to "the cloud", burning through your entire Comcast monthly allowance? Editing them with all those tools that...need a real full OS on x86? It's just silly, there's no comparison and the "Pro" name doesn't mean anything. (Note that I'm not saying a 13" high end eReader isn't cool, it just ain't a replacement for a real PC.)masimilianzo - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
There's an error on the iPad Pro thicknesswhiteiphoneproblems - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
"with 15 seconds of charging providing 30 minutes of battery life."Well that's pretty cool...
ImSpartacus - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Yeah, I wonder how they pull that off. With a 12 hour battery life, 30 minutes is more than 4% of the capacity. 4% in 15s is pretty speedy.psychobriggsy - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
That's for the pencil, not the tablet. :-)batongxue - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
hmmm.... so iPad Air is going to be updated next spring with the Watch?name99 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Perhaps. IMHO it makes sense, simply in terms of better spreading of demand+manufacturing across the entire year.It MAY (who knows) also reflect yield problems at TSMC? Maybe A9X yields are currently sufficiently low that Apple was not confident they could meet iPad Air 3 demands and decided it was safer to just let the product slide a few months?
nerd1 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
So this pen lacks additional button or eraser, has to be charged every 30 min in very awkward way, and cannot be stored inside the device. Oh and it's extra and apple charges $99 for that, while all other ntrig/synaptics/wacom pens are available around $20-30. Typical apple.mattbe - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Maybe you should learn to read?It has a 12 hour battery life when it's fully charged.
nerd1 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I consistently hit 9 hrs with SP3, which is quite comparable to me.Devo2007 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
That's 12 hours for the pencil on a full charge (versus a month or two of use on the SP3's pen with AAAA batteriesgschneider - Thursday, September 17, 2015 - link
HOW!!!! I get 3:25hrs. That was constantly streaming 10min youtube clips on wifi, while running spotify through a dragonfly USB DAC to my Oppo PM3 headphones. That was just testing. Average workflow Using youtube for review clips, while using word and Spotify Plus DAC I got 4:30hrsnerd1 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
And the keyboard cover is not adjustable, not lappable, lacks palm rest or touchpad, not backlit and costs $169? Seriously?mattbe - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Yes, overpriced imo but people will still buy it.osxandwindows - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
I don't know how you can use that trackpad on that surface proosxandwindows - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
Plus there are other options like LogitechLolimaster - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
They really need to add SD-XC support and maybe a USB 3.1 typce C for external SSD's. The SOC is damn beast.With this ipad pro they can actually ditch the new macbook and port OSX to ARM. For casual use/everyday office computing or browsing experience there's no need for x86.
What about a Mac Mini ARM with a port of League of Legends? Come on Yuki Rito.
Devo2007 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Yeah, because porting Windows to ARM worked so well for Microsoft.....Michael Bay - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
It actually did in PoS things.osxandwindows - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
lightning flash drives are thereWolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
WHY? x86 is much higher end, and Intel already makes a good low-end ARM competitor-third gen Atom, which has basically the same CPU performance that this will have, for basically the same price.Why would it be good for consumers to put them through the pain of ANOTHER architecture change, all so that we can have lower end hardware that's not compatible with existing programs?
Lolimaster - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
--> Intel executives preparing to commit sepukku.Michael Bay - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
With the share Apple has in broadly "PC" products? Dream on.If anything, Core M is the way forward.
Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
It certainly should be. An Apple tablet running Core M and OS X would be WAY more interesting.ltcommanderdata - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
It'll be interesting to see if the A8 in the iPad Mini 4 is clocked higher than in the iPhone 6 Plus to close the gap with the A8X.Any confirmation whether the variable refresh display in the iPad Pro provides the benefits of Adaptive Sync/G-Sync?
DrChemist - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I don't understand this device. They price it higher than the Surface Pro or MacBook Air, cripple it with iOS and ARM processing, then tell you somehow it's faster than Intel Core i5 or i7 by using a blanket statement of being faster than 80% of PCs sold in the past 12 months. WTF is wrong with this picture. They basically are telling you to pay $500 more for an iPad with a bigger screen. Hell you can already buy an accessory keyboard and pen for $100 on a $499 iPad and get the same pile of crap for 100s less. I'll keep even my Surface Pro 1 over this pile.nerd1 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I guess 80% of PCs are crappy atom, pentium dualcore or AMD ones so their claim may be true. Heck, a 'DESKTOP' iMac has 1.4Ghz mobile CPU too.aliceyoung - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
It's compelling, but appears hasty and reactionary. It's also not at all what Steve Jobs would have wanted. Microsoft must have gotten under their skin with the surface. Very little details as well. Maybe they nailed it, maybe they didn't. What is known is that the surface did nail it, successfully building a powerful computer into the form factor of a Wacom Cintiq tablet without the cables. While I am a long-time machead/unix guru, I find the rumored surface 4 to be much more interesting, simply because it's a full-blown, programmable computer, and the iPad is still generally a consumer device to distribute content. At least I can run Linux on the surface and not be hobbled by an underpowered CPU.name99 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
So hasty and reactionary that it's been rumored for over two years...Presumably Apple, in their standard fashion, were unwilling to release it until the various pieces were all lined up properly
- multitasking in iOS
- fast enough GPU to drive a 5K display
- pen (plus screen) that did not suffer from the parallax that's common when trying to draw on glass
zepi - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
This display has nothing 5K in it. 5K display as Apple iMac has it is 5120x2880. This thing is a 2732x2048 display.sorten - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Hasty and reactionary in execution. It's just a large iPad. I assume they were hoping for some enterprise traction with the Pro moniker, but the fact that Microsoft demoed software at the release tells you how worried they are about the enterprise space.name99 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
"the iPad Air 2 also scans at 120Hz which was not advertised"This may not have been advertised but was known. Apple discussed it (why it was done, and how the whole touch-to-app-to-screen update path worked and was optimized in iOS9) back at WWDC 2015.
Brandon Chester - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I was mentioning it for the majority of people who wouldn't have seen the WWDC session.damianrobertjones - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
Hmmmm Doesn't seem to have pressure sensitvityBrandon Chester - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
It does.kron123456789 - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I hope you remember this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YY3MSaUqMgWatchig this after today is so funny.
Michael Bay - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Admittedly, he meant a stylus paired with small low-res smartphone screens _back then_.basroil - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
"To recharge the Apple Pencil, you just remove the cap at the end and a lightning connector is exposed. You can then plug it into your iPad Pro to charge, with 15 seconds of charging providing 30 minutes of battery life. With a full charge the Apple Pencil will last 12 hours."WTF??!!?!??? My Surface Pro 3's pen has been using the same battery for a year now, and they're telling us a dumber version without buttons or replaceable tips needs to be charged every day?
psychobriggsy - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I'm guessing it's not dumber. It does tilt for a start.What it is, however, is overpriced. It should come with the tablet.
lucam - Wednesday, September 9, 2015 - link
I am really interested on the performance of the A9X..it seems even faster than Tegra X1.I am very curious about the thermal constrains then...
stevedion - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
I can see my business clients use this. All they do is check emails, spreadsheets, docs and browse the web. On a nice bigger canvas this could be good for them. As the name states, it's Pro not consumer focused.Shadowmaster625 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Wow they are really gouging on that new mini. $400 for a BOM of $140? They are nuts if they think they are going to keep getting away with that kind of gouging.fluxtatic - Sunday, September 13, 2015 - link
What makes you think this is any different than what they've done for the past nearly twenty years? They're a hardware company that figured out how to make enterprise-like margins on consumer hardware. That being, having an awesome marketing team.Wolfpup - Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - link
It's the same price they've been charging for years. $500 base on the iPad, $400 base on the mini.Sunburn74 - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
This comic predicted the ipad pro 3 years agohttp://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/79e4a7a212f5...
osxandwindows - Thursday, September 10, 2015 - link
Internally its the same as the RMB keyboard.glowbug - Friday, September 11, 2015 - link
Has it been confirmed that Apple the iPad mini no longer has a reduced color gamut? The article says it appears that it has been fixed but I'd like to know for sure before ordering.christenreef - Saturday, September 12, 2015 - link
Thanks for the article. Netflix, Hulu and BBC App is great on iPhone. If live outside USA, you can use tools like UnoTelly to getNetflix, Hulu and BBC on your iPad.GruntboyX - Friday, September 18, 2015 - link
After using Surface Tablets, Fullsize Ipads, and the Nexus 7. I really think the Ipad Mini is the sweet spot. Wish it wasn't second fiddle on specs to the full size ipad. But maybe that is not really that important, with the smaller screen?