Not a bad result, for both machines. Alas I am not sure whether machines of this form should ever be overclocked... If you build something like that, likely you are not after the holy frame per second, but rather look for quiet mode at comfortable temperature to keep the lifespan on max.
There's usually some level of "free" extra performance to be had with negligible heat and noise changes as chips are built with some safety buffer in mind.
True, though personally I'd use that buffer for undervolting in this target setup. It's not a number-crunching machine nor gaming machine, the chances you'd be excessively using it for intensive tasks is quite slim. I'd be talking otherwise if this was some i7-6700 with GTX 980Ti where you can expect heavy loads in bigger volume, but here? Dunno...
While it's a bit of a niche market, I disagree with you somewhat. Having a small, powerful, and relatively portable gaming rig for LAN parties can be very fun.
I almost entered the sweepstakes, I really need something like this, but it's some third party sweepstakes manager who wants my real name to attach to my real phone number and email address? And there isn't any clear indication what they intend to do with that information? Or how long they intend to keep it?
I'm disappointed Anandtech. You can handle this better.
That data is used for contacting the winners. Sometimes emails bounce, or get spam filtered, hence the phone number requirement. The data is only used for contacting winners, nothing else. All T&C are in the link, and SurveyGizmo is used as they already have a secure system and database in place rather than building our own. We've run numerous competitions and giveaways through this system in the past. If you have specific issues you want addressed, email me (ian at anandtech) and I'll forward you to someone who can answer them.
My only gripe about the contest is it is closed too fast. It seems like you have less than 24 hours to enter it. The first one was confusing because Anandtech used to just place a post on the article and you were "entered". I think I have it figured out now. We just need a few more of these for me to enter.
I understand the marketing hope on having it end so quickly. I typically read all the headlines when they're released and then read the articles later.
Even after benchmarking, I still find it very difficult to favor one system over the other. They're both very solid builds without any show stopping flaws. Either system would serve a college student well in a variety of computing tasks. As usual, I love reading these build-a-rig articles.
The only problem with spreading these articles out they way they are is that I'm only 75% sure I signed up for the sweepstakes with the first article, but don't want to do it again and get my entry tossed. But otherwise, I really like the way this series is organized, and the computers they've built.
The 600 watt PSU is excessive for the computer's current hardware, but it might be worth considering the extra wattage as headroom to grow into a more powerful CPU and/or graphics card later without being concerned about wattage. The Core i3-4170 is a 54 watt TDP processor and the GTX 950 is a 90 watt card. Moving up to a GTX 980 would add 75 watts more demand (165 watts total power according to NV's site) and an i7-4770 would need another 30 watts (84 watt TDP). That'd quickly turn the 200+ watt PC into a 300+ watt one which puts the PSU at 50% load which is well into the more efficient areas of its power delivery curve.
At the same time, the efficiency penalty from being significantly below the PSUs sweet spot is much larger than from being near its max output. You're also paying a lot in higher running costs now for that big low efficiency PSU. At typical US energy prices, if you leave it on 24/7 it's about $30/year; and is still $10/year if only on for 8 hours a day (triple these numbers for somewhere like Hawaii or Germany that have really high power costs). A 450/500W model makes a lot more sense now and would do much better in the face of your potential high end upgrade than the current one does now. If you're going with an oversized PSU now because you don't want to buy a bigger one after a future planned upgrade, it really pays to get a high efficiency model to avoid the much higher operational costs when the system is at idle.
The cost concern would vary from place to place, as you've pointed out, but I think the difference in cost even in areas where electrical rates are high aren't that significant. Say you'd spend $90 a year feeding a computer electricity to leave it on 24/7 in a high cost area of the world. A more efficient power supply that burns less power might help, but you'd realize a pretty small overall price difference over the useful lifespan of the computer. I don't deny the idea of a more efficient, lower wattage PSU being a better choice, but I don't think electrical costs are a very significant factor in computing hardware unless the savings are pretty dramatic (say netbook vs gaming desktop) or involve large numbers of computers in a business/enterprise environment.
However, I wouldn't even upgrade a system like the Crucial box unless I could do so by waiting a few GPU generations to get more performance for less wattage rather than grabbing a higher end and more demanding current generation part, but I'm also pretty happy with gaming on a GeForce GT 730. If my desktop vanished today, I'm also not against using my admittedly old Atom n270 netbook as my only computer since gaming isn't a major concern. As such, I'm guessing you're more well informed and better suited to make a recommendation. :)
You appear to be misunderstanding my numbers. It's not $90 total, it's $90 *more*. The rule of thumb conversion factor for something on 24/7 is that at a price of 10 cents/KWH is equal to 1 dollar/watt-year. Somewhere that power is 10c/kwh (slightly below the US average) the Might Milo would cost $38/year left at idle, Ballistic Bantam would cost $64; a $26/year difference. At 35c/kwh its $133 vs $224 per year for power, that 26 watt difference ends up costing an extra $91/year.
Oh, okay! Sorry for the misunderstanding. I do think the cost difference isn't that significant in the grand scheme of things. In the hypothetical college student in a dorm situation, electrical inefficiency isn't going to result in a cost increase unless the university is metering individual dorms. They didn't when I was a student, but that isn't even remotely recent history. For someone who's paying their own electrical bills, $90 a year is only the price of one person's dinner at a nice restaurant. I still agree the power supply is overkill, but energy costs just aren't dramatic enough to matter. Don't buy that extra pair of shoes or skip out on girls/boys night out once or twice -- you won't miss them anyway since you'll be busy playing whatever game it is that makes you happy anyway.
Yeah, Digital Foundry has pretty much solidified that even two extra virtual threads make a huge difference. 2 cores alone can sometimes drop a lot of frames in a game, two cores with hyperthreading for four virtual threads usually does really well. To the point where the CPU can push over 60fps in games if the GPU is up to it.
It's interesting to see how balanced both systems are - they both run into various bottlenecks depending on the application/settings. Objectively, I feel Crucial's more balanced system is the better choice for a true back-to-school system but, subjectively, overclocking SilverStone's G3258 by 34% is much cooler. I'd recommend the former to someone else. I'd take the latter for myself :)
So in other words, use the Milo build, but replace the cpu and gpu with the i3 and the 950, since the pentium and the 960 dont have enough threads to make proper use of the added gpu power.
No the ASROCK motherboard does not have the latest BIOS. Luckily for my schedule it had overclocking enabled out of the box. Unfortunately I do not know off hand how far back one has to go to regain overclocking, though I was warned that it may be necessary.
So I had to downgrade from the latest bios to the last one (august?) and it brought back overclocking. Unfortunately it also bricked my motherboard for a few hours until I could tear the mini-itx case apart (Lian Li Q25) and hit the reset CMOS jumper. After multiple lacerations from the tight clearance I was able to reset it and force it to F6 - quick bios flash from a USB drive. Yay 4.4ghz is back.
Both the builds are unnecessarily stiffled. Just take the first one's case, the Milo, and put the second build's components except for the gfx card and psu. Retain those components and I'm pretty sure the winner will be far happier. Overclocking reduces reliability and increases heat. The winner should not be expected to fiddle to OC the system.
Or simply take out the SSD in the first one and spread the money across a better CPU and a motherboard with better wifi. 120GB is hardly anything after formatting, installing the OS, apps and games.
Keep in mind that's only an average - Techreport and Digital Foundry frame time testing show the i3 is a big upgrade from the Pentium for frame time averages. Two extra threads help a lot.
Funny to see this as I am actually in the process of finishing up a very similar build to the Bantum for my daughter. Being patient and finding deals has saved me a good amount of $$. Thermaltake core v1 $39.99 AsRock H97M-ITX/ac $59.99 (After $20 rebate) Corsair CS450M Gold - $33.99 (After $20 rebate) Win 7 Pro - (Already owned and will upgrade to 10 for free) EVGA GTX950 2GB - $111.99 Intel i3-4170 - $101 G.Skill Sniper 2x4GB DDR3-2166 - $34.99 OCZ ARC 100 240GB - $59.99 Seagate 1TB - $44.99 Total: $486.93
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
43 Comments
Back to Article
zeeBomb - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
Building a rig all day long, building a rig when I sing this song.Billie Boyd - Friday, November 27, 2015 - link
This are pretty expensive rig. I recommend seeing CybertronPC Patriot for a hardcore gamer. It highly rated but half the price of both rigs. (seen at http://www.consumerrunner.com/top-10-best-desktops...HollyDOL - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
Not a bad result, for both machines. Alas I am not sure whether machines of this form should ever be overclocked... If you build something like that, likely you are not after the holy frame per second, but rather look for quiet mode at comfortable temperature to keep the lifespan on max.tipoo - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
There's usually some level of "free" extra performance to be had with negligible heat and noise changes as chips are built with some safety buffer in mind.HollyDOL - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
True, though personally I'd use that buffer for undervolting in this target setup. It's not a number-crunching machine nor gaming machine, the chances you'd be excessively using it for intensive tasks is quite slim. I'd be talking otherwise if this was some i7-6700 with GTX 980Ti where you can expect heavy loads in bigger volume, but here? Dunno...Scootiep7 - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
While it's a bit of a niche market, I disagree with you somewhat. Having a small, powerful, and relatively portable gaming rig for LAN parties can be very fun.tammlam - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
ITX builds are fun.Der2 - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
Its like reading a fun build for a prize fight!shmuck - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
I almost entered the sweepstakes, I really need something like this, but it's some third party sweepstakes manager who wants my real name to attach to my real phone number and email address? And there isn't any clear indication what they intend to do with that information? Or how long they intend to keep it?I'm disappointed Anandtech. You can handle this better.
Ian Cutress - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
That data is used for contacting the winners. Sometimes emails bounce, or get spam filtered, hence the phone number requirement. The data is only used for contacting winners, nothing else. All T&C are in the link, and SurveyGizmo is used as they already have a secure system and database in place rather than building our own. We've run numerous competitions and giveaways through this system in the past. If you have specific issues you want addressed, email me (ian at anandtech) and I'll forward you to someone who can answer them.nathanddrews - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
But... but...https://youtu.be/9gSQg1i_q2g
shmuck - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
Damn straight! Somebody's got to do the complaining around here. Harumph.https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detai...
The privacy information which was missing from the link:
https://www.surveygizmo.com/privacy/
This is a lot more encouraging.
eanazag - Tuesday, November 17, 2015 - link
My only gripe about the contest is it is closed too fast. It seems like you have less than 24 hours to enter it. The first one was confusing because Anandtech used to just place a post on the article and you were "entered". I think I have it figured out now. We just need a few more of these for me to enter.I understand the marketing hope on having it end so quickly. I typically read all the headlines when they're released and then read the articles later.
BrokenCrayons - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
Even after benchmarking, I still find it very difficult to favor one system over the other. They're both very solid builds without any show stopping flaws. Either system would serve a college student well in a variety of computing tasks. As usual, I love reading these build-a-rig articles.Samus - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
Damn that Silverstone is a sexy beast. Throw in i5-4690k in there and damn...racerx_is_alive - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
The only problem with spreading these articles out they way they are is that I'm only 75% sure I signed up for the sweepstakes with the first article, but don't want to do it again and get my entry tossed. But otherwise, I really like the way this series is organized, and the computers they've built.smorebuds - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
"IF YOU ENTER MORE THAN ONCE, ALL BUT ONE ENTRY WILL BE DELETED."Sounds like you'll still have an entry in there.
Ryan Smith - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
Humm, interesting. I hadn't considered that angle before. Thanks for the feedback.ShieTar - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
Nice, but am I the only one that feels that more fun should be poked at the 600W-PSU in the 200W-PC?Just shows that even when somebody knows what they are doing in general, they will always remain capable of messing up on some important detail.
BrokenCrayons - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
The 600 watt PSU is excessive for the computer's current hardware, but it might be worth considering the extra wattage as headroom to grow into a more powerful CPU and/or graphics card later without being concerned about wattage. The Core i3-4170 is a 54 watt TDP processor and the GTX 950 is a 90 watt card. Moving up to a GTX 980 would add 75 watts more demand (165 watts total power according to NV's site) and an i7-4770 would need another 30 watts (84 watt TDP). That'd quickly turn the 200+ watt PC into a 300+ watt one which puts the PSU at 50% load which is well into the more efficient areas of its power delivery curve.DanNeely - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
At the same time, the efficiency penalty from being significantly below the PSUs sweet spot is much larger than from being near its max output. You're also paying a lot in higher running costs now for that big low efficiency PSU. At typical US energy prices, if you leave it on 24/7 it's about $30/year; and is still $10/year if only on for 8 hours a day (triple these numbers for somewhere like Hawaii or Germany that have really high power costs). A 450/500W model makes a lot more sense now and would do much better in the face of your potential high end upgrade than the current one does now. If you're going with an oversized PSU now because you don't want to buy a bigger one after a future planned upgrade, it really pays to get a high efficiency model to avoid the much higher operational costs when the system is at idle.BrokenCrayons - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
The cost concern would vary from place to place, as you've pointed out, but I think the difference in cost even in areas where electrical rates are high aren't that significant. Say you'd spend $90 a year feeding a computer electricity to leave it on 24/7 in a high cost area of the world. A more efficient power supply that burns less power might help, but you'd realize a pretty small overall price difference over the useful lifespan of the computer. I don't deny the idea of a more efficient, lower wattage PSU being a better choice, but I don't think electrical costs are a very significant factor in computing hardware unless the savings are pretty dramatic (say netbook vs gaming desktop) or involve large numbers of computers in a business/enterprise environment.However, I wouldn't even upgrade a system like the Crucial box unless I could do so by waiting a few GPU generations to get more performance for less wattage rather than grabbing a higher end and more demanding current generation part, but I'm also pretty happy with gaming on a GeForce GT 730. If my desktop vanished today, I'm also not against using my admittedly old Atom n270 netbook as my only computer since gaming isn't a major concern. As such, I'm guessing you're more well informed and better suited to make a recommendation. :)
DanNeely - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
You appear to be misunderstanding my numbers. It's not $90 total, it's $90 *more*. The rule of thumb conversion factor for something on 24/7 is that at a price of 10 cents/KWH is equal to 1 dollar/watt-year. Somewhere that power is 10c/kwh (slightly below the US average) the Might Milo would cost $38/year left at idle, Ballistic Bantam would cost $64; a $26/year difference. At 35c/kwh its $133 vs $224 per year for power, that 26 watt difference ends up costing an extra $91/year.BrokenCrayons - Tuesday, November 17, 2015 - link
Oh, okay! Sorry for the misunderstanding. I do think the cost difference isn't that significant in the grand scheme of things. In the hypothetical college student in a dorm situation, electrical inefficiency isn't going to result in a cost increase unless the university is metering individual dorms. They didn't when I was a student, but that isn't even remotely recent history. For someone who's paying their own electrical bills, $90 a year is only the price of one person's dinner at a nice restaurant. I still agree the power supply is overkill, but energy costs just aren't dramatic enough to matter. Don't buy that extra pair of shoes or skip out on girls/boys night out once or twice -- you won't miss them anyway since you'll be busy playing whatever game it is that makes you happy anyway.nikaldro - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
I think you should have tested frame times. 2 vs 4 threads can make a substantial difference sometimes.tipoo - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
Yeah, Digital Foundry has pretty much solidified that even two extra virtual threads make a huge difference. 2 cores alone can sometimes drop a lot of frames in a game, two cores with hyperthreading for four virtual threads usually does really well. To the point where the CPU can push over 60fps in games if the GPU is up to it.geniekid - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
It's interesting to see how balanced both systems are - they both run into various bottlenecks depending on the application/settings. Objectively, I feel Crucial's more balanced system is the better choice for a true back-to-school system but, subjectively, overclocking SilverStone's G3258 by 34% is much cooler. I'd recommend the former to someone else. I'd take the latter for myself :)Flipper34 - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
Not too bad for the price.crimson117 - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
Giveaway, shmiveaway! I hope I win.reorx - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
This is the perfect PC build for school - especially that Silverstone slim case!Shadowmaster625 - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
So in other words, use the Milo build, but replace the cpu and gpu with the i3 and the 950, since the pentium and the 960 dont have enough threads to make proper use of the added gpu power.dsraa - Thursday, November 12, 2015 - link
finally, a DIY project that a regular person can afford!! I'm sick of those 'dream' systems that no-one buys, or has the money to even think about.nguyendot1 - Friday, November 13, 2015 - link
Does that ASROCK board have the latest bios? I have the latest on mine and the non-z overclocking is now disabled.Daniel Williams - Saturday, November 14, 2015 - link
No the ASROCK motherboard does not have the latest BIOS. Luckily for my schedule it had overclocking enabled out of the box.Unfortunately I do not know off hand how far back one has to go to regain overclocking, though I was warned that it may be necessary.
nguyendot1 - Tuesday, November 17, 2015 - link
So I had to downgrade from the latest bios to the last one (august?) and it brought back overclocking. Unfortunately it also bricked my motherboard for a few hours until I could tear the mini-itx case apart (Lian Li Q25) and hit the reset CMOS jumper. After multiple lacerations from the tight clearance I was able to reset it and force it to F6 - quick bios flash from a USB drive. Yay 4.4ghz is back.isaac12345 - Monday, November 16, 2015 - link
Both the builds are unnecessarily stiffled. Just take the first one's case, the Milo, and put the second build's components except for the gfx card and psu. Retain those components and I'm pretty sure the winner will be far happier. Overclocking reduces reliability and increases heat. The winner should not be expected to fiddle to OC the system.Or simply take out the SSD in the first one and spread the money across a better CPU and a motherboard with better wifi. 120GB is hardly anything after formatting, installing the OS, apps and games.
isaac12345 - Monday, November 16, 2015 - link
Not to forget, get the 7200rpm version of the HDD. The build will be a lot more futureproof.ayejay_nz - Wednesday, November 18, 2015 - link
Cool series!I thought the i3 would help a lot more than it did ^^ It seems the 960 had a bigger impact :o
tipoo - Monday, November 23, 2015 - link
Keep in mind that's only an average - Techreport and Digital Foundry frame time testing show the i3 is a big upgrade from the Pentium for frame time averages. Two extra threads help a lot.erotomania - Friday, November 20, 2015 - link
Crucial may not appreciate being called Corsair (right after 3DMark graphs I believe)Morawka - Friday, November 20, 2015 - link
When you spend more of your budget on the Case, than the CPU, it's a crap build.Jhatfie - Friday, November 20, 2015 - link
Funny to see this as I am actually in the process of finishing up a very similar build to the Bantum for my daughter. Being patient and finding deals has saved me a good amount of $$.Thermaltake core v1 $39.99
AsRock H97M-ITX/ac $59.99 (After $20 rebate)
Corsair CS450M Gold - $33.99 (After $20 rebate)
Win 7 Pro - (Already owned and will upgrade to 10 for free)
EVGA GTX950 2GB - $111.99
Intel i3-4170 - $101
G.Skill Sniper 2x4GB DDR3-2166 - $34.99
OCZ ARC 100 240GB - $59.99
Seagate 1TB - $44.99
Total: $486.93
doc_man - Sunday, November 29, 2015 - link
What if you start with something this add a graphics card, SSD? I guess you'll have to replace psu to.. (it has 350 watt)http://www.adorama.com/ASM32ADR16.html?hotlink=t&a...
Asus M32AD-R16 - $409.99
• Intel Core Core i5-4460S Processor
• 12GB System Memory (DDR3)
• 1TB 7200RPM
(windows, case, etc.)